40M the new 27MHz?

[VK2XQ]

The art of CW requires a little effort John, a willngness to learn and improve, CW is like good wine or cheese, it gets better with age.

Sadly, a lot of people don't want to work hard for anything these days and like to take the easy option.

Biggest problem is, when you give them what they want, the easy option, things don't always turn out for the better in the end.

If you work hard for something you tend to appreciate it more.

Maybe we should return to the old days of tape recording offenders and dobbing them into the authorities?

Into CW yet John? Give it a go, lot of great ops on CW and no nonsense there either, just good people enjoying a great mode.

73 de Jack VK2XQ. "GOM" (Grumpy Old Man)

[VK2MUS]

Into CW yet John? Give it a go, lot of great ops on CW and no nonsense there either, just good people enjoying a great mode

actually on 40M most of the cowboys I hear are not F calls.Mind you I have heard at least one F call that must had a perfect antenna, no loss on the feedline and perfect transmission conditions to make the qso he did - but then I suspose that is possible

Actually with CW now the requirement is gone I think you will have more F calls wanting to learn it. I would love to use CW however with my medical problem I can put my finger to the key and send off 100wpm of gibberish without even putting any pressure on the key. I had considered using the computer keyers to over come this problem but then true CW'ers don't like computer keyed qso's - so at the moment all my cw is a one way conversation. No my interest is geting more and more embedded in the qrp whisper digital modes,Propagation Theory and Antenna theory. I am just taking my time building up the right gear and antennas etc getting every thing right finding where everything is out there and doing some heavy reading.

If you listen to the 40 and to some extent the 80m band then a lot of those doing qso's would fail the foundation pract exam - however one has to be realistic, if two ops are just chatting then I don't expect them to give their callsigns every 10 minutes or even at every over - if it is a more formal situation such as a net then yep but bad language is as far as I am concerned is some thing that has no place on air.

do I agree with the thread title- probably but then listen in to 20M when there is an opening - like livestock at the feed trough

I have not got to the GOM as yet I am only OM but I am working on it.
John

[VK3ALB]

- however one has to be realistic, if two ops are just chatting then I don't expect them to give their callsigns every 10 minutes or even at every over -

That is what we are supposed to do according to our license conditions. I'm not shooting the messenger but I think if we allow little breaches like this it's the thin edge of the wedge as far as poor operating procedures go. Let me get all emotional now and cry why not operate on 3735 because it's quieter there or crank up the power because no one will catch me or swear and carry on because no one can stop me?

I heard someone complaining on a Melbourne repeater last week that Fred (not his real name) was giving him a hard time for not giving his callsign at regular intervals. According to the complainant "Why does it matter, I'm not hurting anyone!?" During the time he was on air neither he nor his mate gave their call signs yet were chasing Fred all over 80m seemingly interfering with each other. Well he probably isn't hurting anyone but once you let a few of the rules slip and begin to carry on in that fashion it's no wonder we are having discussions like this.

[VK2VEL]

I had considered using the computer keyers to over come this problem but then true CW'ers don't like computer keyed qso's - so at the moment all my cw is a one way conversation. No my interest is geting more and more embedded in the qrp whisper digital modes,Propagation Theory and Antenna theory. I am just taking my time building up the right gear and antennas etc getting every thing right finding where everything is out there and doing some heavy reading.

Crikey, John. CW is a mode, not a sacred cow. Don't let they myth/hot air about CW (mostly coming from online wisdom originating largely from the US as far as I can tell, where it seems to be a sacred cow) stop you from doing what you want to do. Some people use a straight key, some use a bug, others use a paddle & keyer. Some use a PC keyer and keyboard. They are all the same mode! Once you get your kit sorted and you get started with your goal of digital modes with a PC, don't hold back from CW being one of them. Life's too short and hobby time is even shorter to worry about stuff like that.

[VK4TS]

John, there is a regulation regarding F Calls and hand sent morse - but ACMA are very receptive to approaches from people with disability - Keyboard morse is fine and at least will keep the code on air - From your posts it is obvious you have a love of the hobby and I expect to see the new upgraded callsign in the near future -

[VK2MUS]

That is what we are supposed to do according to our license conditions. I'm not shooting the messenger but I think if we allow little breaches like this it's the thin edge of the wedge as far as poor operating procedures go. Let me get all emotional now and cry why not operate on 3735 because it's quieter there or crank up the power because no one will catch me or swear and carry on because no one can stop me?

To the letter of the law you are totally correct but then if you apply the letter of the law then one might question wspr and even the 2m wia broadcast on a Sunday morning. The law is always tempted by what society see as acceptable and thus one hopes always in a flux of change. Having said that I am in no way suggesting that F operators or even any operator sets out to break the law. What is and what is not acceptable is learnt by a F operator by operating and inter acting with the community that is they learn from operating not from the books and that I think is one of the aims of the F licence. Some have the view that the F license is the license you get on the Tuesday before the Wednesday when you sit your standard or advanced. For some it might be but for most it is the period where you learn about the hobby, decide where your place is in the hobby and how to interact with the existing members of the hobby. It’s a learning experience. The new operators will learn from those all ready there.

So if the hobby has problems then it has to be cleaned from the top down. Since I have turned the radios back on I really have not experienced any great amount of ‘unsociable’ activities except a small amount of ‘bad language’ which in my view is totally unacceptable, some doubling but then the operator may not have known he was doubling and the one or two extreme power outputs where it was not required or desired.

The most blatant misuse of the regulations for me is the use of the 2M and 40M by clearly unlicensed mine employees in the local mines and that the ACMA could fix quite easily if it set its mind to it. 40m will sound a bit more hectic now adays – there are after all a lot more people trying to use it it is the band that F operators will cut their teeth on in the HF area and with today’s propagation situation , high levels of noise and restrictive council demands on what you can stick up in the air a 10watt signal has to compete with the odd 400w and the odd 400w+ signal taking up most of the waterfall – so it can be a bit hair pulling exercise for a F operator now and then. And then once you get thro all of this the sod on the other end may not talk to you because you’re an F license.

In my view also this obsession for F license holders to quickly get their ‘real’ license will in the end cause problems - bit like giving a teenager a full driving license before he completes his required driving experience , if you want good operators then you must give them the training time as an operator and of course provide the right guidance during that time.

John

[VK7DR]

In my view also this obsession for F license holders to quickly get their ‘real’ license will in the end cause problems - bit like giving a teenager a full driving license before he completes his required driving experience , if you want good operators then you must give them the training time as an operator and of course provide the right guidance during that time.

John

Absolutely and agreed, John. Unfortunately, that "real" licence is somewhat too easy to get, with or without proper on air training or guidance.

[VK2MUS]

back in the early days I remember that there was a tech course at the local tech collage for amateur radio licence - in fact I have some of the 'textbooks' from it on the shelf - surely with the increase in F license operators there would be a demand for such a course now.
John

[VK2VEL]

The Radio and Electronics School offer excellent self learning and facilitated courses for standard and advanced licenses respectively.

http://www.radioelectronicschool.net/

[VK2CSW]

Absolutely and agreed, John. Unfortunately, that "real" licence is somewhat too easy to get, with or without proper on air training or guidance.

(In my best Yorkshire Accent)
Oh yes, the kids of today have it easy...

Back in MY day we had to get up two hours before we went to bed and ...

Radio? It wasn't a radio as such more a electrical torture machine...

Seriously, I can't wait until I get old and grumpy, so I can whine about the "good old days" and how the youth of today are all miscreants who shouldn't be allowed on the air.
Heaven forbid that technology and the world should change and progress.

Oh yes we only had morse and a straight key and we were well pleased to have it. Kids of today...

[VK7DR]

Seriously, I can't wait until I get old and grumpy, so I can whine about the "good old days" and how the youth of today are all miscreants who shouldn't be allowed on the air.
Heaven forbid that technology and the world should change and progress.

So, is this your actual position? Pity.

It certainly isn't mine, and it's a shame you don't feel any need to find out just what it might be.

Your tilting at your own straw man only demonstrates why any real discussion of the background, traditions and current technological and social aspects of amateur radio is best left to those who spend as much of their time as possible trying to maintain them, including technical help for new comers, training f calls, and supporting those who for some reason or another find themselves targets of the very behaviour this thread addresses.

The fact that I am no doubt older than you doesn't make me or my experience anachronistic. Your remark about changing technology made me laugh. Perhaps straw men do not have the qualifications nor experience to back up the statements they make without ad hominem argument. I do.

[VK2MUS]

Oh yes we only had morse and a straight key and we were well pleased to have it. Kids of today...

you were lucky I only had a tin and a string - because of the distances we all had a string to Peters house and if I wanted to send a message to Dave I would call Peter and he would then ring Dave - so I suppose we did have a Repeter but not much else - of course we were also into optical transmissions with the bat light

Radio? It wasn't a radio as such more a electrical torture machine...

I miss my old AR7 rig and the No.19 - apart from a lot of fun they kept me warm , gave the heart a jump start every now and then and gave off enought light to read a comic from .
"A Real Radio not only glows in the dark; it hums, sputters and has a faint scent of cosmoline!"
my current radio's just sits there - if you turned the lights off you would not even know they were there
john