Exam / Licence Price & Young People ..

[VK2FABS]

I am in this situation at the moment. My daughter loves radio, and would love to get her ticket, but just getting the license with exams etc will run over $300, then an additional $75 per year, and no doubt my other kids and wife would like to do it too, but as a single income home, the cost becomes prohibitive, considering other priorities families have. So we just use "private" CB channels (CTCSS coded) instead for them to use. It's a shame, because as a family it's the cost that stopping us getting more AR licensees.

Can certainly see those numbers and your pain. With all the various services and recreations locking subscribers into annual fees, they can certainly add up quickly and significantly. With a population differential of 10+:1 b/n the US and here in Oz, their low fee model has certainly worked. Question is, can it work for our ballooning population of 23-24M?

[VK2AAH]

Has their model "worked"? Do you mean that it has worked in terms of boosting license numbers? But has it had other adverse impacts that you aren't considering? Such as service levels... The ACMA are under the pump to recover their costs and if amateurs want to move to a low or no cost model then the ACMA will adjust the services it provides to us to suit. Every hobby costs money and I could look at your family situation another way- multiple ops in the same family can share one station... you don't need multiple radios, multiple antennas- that is a cost saving over most of us don't enjoy. And equipment cost is many times what the license costs. For example my new radio cost me 40 years worth of license fees... my SDR cost me 7 years worth of license fees... As for the comment about "locking subscribers into annual fees".... well the hobby is not compulsory- it is a hobby- and I think that young people need to go into the hobby knowing that it isn't free, that if you don't pay someone else will whether it is in increased charges or a loss of services. The community will not subsidise our choice of a past time... amateur radio is not a social welfare.

Cheers


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK2OT]

Exactly Amateur radio is not is not social welfare ,some just want it all for free and all privileges with out time effort or money.....no doubt there are lots of hobbies we all would like to do but we can not afford them .............

[VK3DQ]

Exactly Amateur radio is not is not social welfare ,some just want it all for free and all privileges with out time effort or money.....no doubt there are lots of hobbies we all would like to do but we can not afford them .............

You are correct Amateur Radio is not social welfare .. but it IS a social hobby ...

Too many crusty old men ... saying things like "My XYL would never get a license" When did you ask her ???


Without more "Ham Families" there is very little "Youth" entering our hobby and thats the rub ..

Computers are mainly a passive thing , you sit in front of a screen and are passive .. Amateur Radio can open a world of activities , I don't need to list them , you already know them .

One thing we do allow in amateur radio is the "You cannot do that" syndrome this needs to change now .. get out there with your family and enjoy the hobby to the full , and remember "The Family that plays together , stays together"


Amateur radio is not trying to compete with "computers" on a technical basis amateur radio offers a Social hobby, that should be our main thrust


Best 7 3 John VK3DQ Assessor 3-044

[VK7ZA]

It's not about social welfare, this thread is about questioning the link between cost and young people entering the hobby. My comments were simply supporting the OP's initial question, by explaining that in my situation, that exam and license price were THE reason at least one of my other family members aren't licensed. I worked around it though, by getting a standard ticket, so my kids could operate under my call when I'm about. And when I'm not about, they use our "private" uhf cb channels (really only to protect young ears from colorful language).

VK2OT, I hope your comments weren't directed at me, because saying that people who are price conscious "want it all for free and with all privileges without time, effort or money" is pretty offensive.

Lance



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[VK4WDM]

Something that could be looked at is a "family license" because some of the administration costs are obviously shared if several licensees share the same address and station.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK3ALB]

Let's not forget how fashionable it was not so long ago to search out the youngest kid we could find and get them licensed. I'd bet most of these kids churned through the hobby and are no longer active. HAM families is a good thing for the right reason but it is not the next big thing or untapped resource. These two situations are a great promotional coup but mostly short lived because the incentive to get a ticket is usually to make Dad happy not because they are interested in the hobby. Nothing wrong with that but it's not sustainable.

It's quite easy to convince a child that they want a license when all they really want is to make their parents happy. This can happen in families too. I've closely observed several ham families (including my own) and it seems to me that the long term retention rate of ham families and kids is no greater than for a random group of people walking in off the street. This doesn't mean that we should actively avoid ham families and kids but let's not call it the great salvation of the hobby.

It is more important (and more difficult) in my opinion to search out those with a genuine interest in radio, AR and the technical aspects of the hobby. These people, young or old, already have the right stuff and are more likely to stick to the hobby than someone that just wants to please. I'm sure we can all remember that one particular person that did just that with us and set us on a path to a life long hobby and perhaps career. This is not an easy path and requires a significant effort to find these people.

We see the ITU definition of AR on the logger quite often. If you can't find people that believe it, relate to it and try to propagate it then the hobby will not remain viable in it's current form. Perhaps it might be better for the ITU to change the definition to suit the changing direction of the hobby?

There are a number of members here that bemoan the falling technical standards of AR. I think a lot of the times they do it in a way that offends rather than encourages positive discussion and thought but the underlying message is solid and should not be dismissed.

[VK3DQ]

Hi Folks

There is not going to be a "Next Big Thing" , don't expect anything like that to "Save" Amateur radio.

Only a steady consistent approach will work . My work in schools has proven that Children that are not in "Ham Families" generally do not remain licensed for more than two years after gaining their initial license , there is a lack of support in the family and no way will little freddy be allowed to visit the "Ham down the road" .. and if we think about it the "Ham" would be very well advised not to allow little freddy to visit without a parent.
School radio clubs are also not the answer, there are many issues that work against them.

Many radio clubs are not "Child Friendly" and I would not expect them to be so.

The way we win hearts and minds is through the home environment , but if you encourage just one person into our hobby this year our hobby will grow

Best 73 John VK3DQ Assessor 3-044

[VK5ZLR]

but just getting the license with exams etc will run over $300, then an additional $75 per year,

Lance

This may not seem like a big deal for all youse flash city blokes on the North Shore in your shiny suits and your BMW's, but in the bush this cost is an absolute show stopper.

I would suggest that AR is doing itself long term harm by following this high cost of entry road.

[VK2FABS]

This may not seem like a big deal for all youse flash city blokes on the North Shore in your shiny suits and your BMW's, but in the bush this cost is an absolute show stopper.

I understand it's not only the country folks who find the household economics challenging. For AR to grow, one can't depend on the 1%, but needs the participation of the 99%. Fact is, it is a discretionary expenditure and will have an impact on most households that have growing children and a mortgage. As others have suggested, I also think a family licence fee makes sense if one cares to expand the community base.

And a timely thread on LCD revision for this discussion, one that'll impact our field for the next decade.
http://www.vklogger.com/forum/viewtopic ... 74&t=12608

[VK2AAH]

I'm sorry but while there is an important social aspect to the hobby, it is not a "social hobby"- it is a "technical hobby" and it is time some people woke up to that. If you want a social radio hobby go and buy a CB.... that is what it was created for. We only have access to our amateur spectrum because of the technical skills we have demonstrated & the technical contribution the hobby is supposed to make. Without the technical aspect of the hobby being primary we could well be signing the hobby's death warrant.

Cheers

Richard
VK2AAH

[VK2FABS]

Is the elephant big or is it an animal? It's both. Clearly it's similar in AR, one that encompasses technical, social, recreation amongst many others objectives. Anyone trying to cast this or many other pursuits in life with a narrow definition is just losing the perspective.

[VK2AAH]

This may not seem like a big deal for all youse flash city blokes on the North Shore in your shiny suits and your BMW's, but in the bush this cost is an absolute show stopper.

I would suggest that AR is doing itself long term harm by following this high cost of entry road.

Sorry, but that is just insulting...

If you can't afford $75 a year per person for a license how in the world are you going to get on air? Do you shop for radios & antennas at St Vinnies? This hobby has always cost money- and in terms of average wage earnings amateurs have probably never had it better. The price of radios since the late 70s has remained constant while incomes have risen... what has probably got worse is the entitlement mentality- someone owes me a radio license, someone owes me the spectrum... I want, I want, I want... well sorry folks our spectrum is becoming more valuable than ever before. And more now than ever before people ask "If there was no amateur radio tomorrow, would anyone really notice?"


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK2AAH]

Is the elephant big or is it an animal? It's both. Clearly it's similar in AR, one that encompasses technical, social, recreation amongst many others objectives. Anyone trying to cast this or many other pursuits in life with a narrow definition is just losing the perspective.

Strange... amateur radio is technical first by its nature- it can be social and recreational as well if you choose it to be. That is a fact, you can choose to ignore it if you wish. All you are engaging in is a convenient redefining of the hobby's charter for existence and playing into the hands of those who believe that the hobby is being dumbed down to appeal purely to non-technical people all in the name of generating numbers at the expense of quality.

[VK2FABS]

But being "first" does not exclude all the others. Clearly, AR as it is today is a product of many aspects. Without one or many of them, AR would be in a very different shape. I can certainly understand how AR started as a technical endeavour, at a time when basic electricity and radio waves were the frontiers of human technologies, but it clearly has grown and evolved since. Clearly there is a limited proportion of participants who are continuing to lead the way and pushing the boundaries of radio waves, but I get the clear impression that the great majority are more in the field for recreation and social reasons, and are followers of technology.

[VK2AAH]

I never said it does... but it is curious how those who focus on the social aspects ignore the technical... I clearly mix in different circles to you because those who I tend to meet get enormous enjoyment out of the technical aspects rather than the social. That doesn't mean much, it just shows the diversity of amateurs... But your comment suggests that you don't think technical pursuits are of any importance any more- and that is where you & I differ. I just think the nature of technology has changed- and it always has- but if amateurs can't demonstrate what they contribute I would be enjoying the hobby for the little time it has left. There are 80 CB channels on UHF and 40 on 27MHz... if all people want to do is socialise via radio than there is plenty of quiet spectrum there... we can hand the rest of 440-450, 23cm, 3.4GHz and 10GHz (and higher) to those willing to use it to benefit the community (or shareholders).


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK4TI]

This may not seem like a big deal for all youse flash city blokes on the North Shore in your shiny suits and your BMW's, but in the bush this cost is an absolute show stopper.

I would suggest that AR is doing itself long term harm by following this high cost of entry road.

Sorry, but that is just insulting...

If you can't afford $75 a year per person for a license how in the world are you going to get on air? Do you shop for radios & antennas at St Vinnies? This hobby has always cost money- and in terms of average wage earnings amateurs have probably never had it better. The price of radios since the late 70s has remained constant while incomes have risen... what has probably got worse is the entitlement mentality- someone owes me a radio license, someone owes me the spectrum... I want, I want, I want... well sorry folks our spectrum is becoming more valuable than ever before. And more now than ever before people ask "If there was no amateur radio tomorrow, would anyone really notice?"


Richard
VK2AAH[/quote]Well Richy I am sorry to see you making those statements , I have and will continue to lend radio gear to new comers until they can finance their own , one would hope you feel the same and not have any interest in a speedy recovery as patience is a virtue ?
B

[VK2AAH]

Of course I would... but people need to demonstrate some initiative too. Donating equipment to those who only hold their hand out for everything for nothing only feeds EBay... I recently came across someone who kept complaining how he was being discriminated against because he was a Standard call, and how he thought a radio site owner somehow "owed him" because he was a hobbyist. I offered him stuff but after I heard him moan I walked away. We need more do'ers, not more moan'ers.


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK2FABS]

I never said it does... but it is curious how those who focus on the social aspects ignore the technical... I clearly mix in different circles to you because those who I tend to meet get enormous enjoyment out of the technical aspects rather than the social. That doesn't mean much, it just shows the diversity of amateurs... But your comment suggests that you don't think technical pursuits are of any importance any more- and that is where you & I differ. I just think the nature of technology has changed- and it always has- but if amateurs can't demonstrate what they contribute I would be enjoying the hobby for the little time it has left. There are 80 CB channels on UHF and 40 on 27MHz... if all people want to do is socialise via radio than there is plenty of quiet spectrum there... we can hand the rest of 440-450, 23cm, 3.4GHz and 10GHz (and higher) to those willing to use it to benefit the community (or shareholders).

I think we may be misreading each other's comments. I never suggested that AR participants don't dabble in the technical, but that can be quite different to advancing new technical grounds. From what I can see, there's a limited portion who are exploring the frontiers while the great majority are followers and rehashing known technology. As for the CB world, like all fields, even that has been technically explored and advanced by so called CBers of past and present. Fact is, it's a community like many other human endeavours, it's shaped by multi-faceted input.

Irrespective, I think there are a few sub-threads going through this discussion and responses in relation to one issue is being mis-used for another. On the issue of growing the participation rate, fee and any regular costs will certainly exert a financial burden (for a good number of individuals/families) and as well as leading to the expiration of their participation, that's just a reality of life. In a scenario of sustained licence e.g. US, it'd be much easier for hams to vary their level of participation in years to decades to conform to their life circumstances. Not so here.

[ADMIN]

VK4TI, enough is enough.

Can you please spend a few moments and learn how to use the quote tags properly.
It isn't that hard, and honestly, your posts are often indecipherable, as to where a quote starts and ends, especially when viewed on a mobile device.
Alternatively, stop attempting to use quotes altogether.

Getting in, before the next round of complaints come in.

TIA.