Exam / Licence Price & Young People ..

[VK2XSO]

Trash,
Why beat your noggin against a brick wall?

Because it's broken Colin and it's easy to fix.
The people running the system don't think there is a problem.
If I have to be the bull in the china shop to highlight to problem so be it.
They know now don't they !

The solution is to either make it cheaper or faster. Both would preferable.
People understand that in order to keep things cheap, they can take longer.
Or they don't mind paying for something if the service is reasonable.

Even if there is a backlog of applications because ham radio is so popular, we can even accept that.

But that isn't the case.

The process is taking longer than is considered acceptable. Everybody wants to know why ?
Is it a lack of staff, equipment, money or something else ?

I've highlighted that if there is details wrong the application it can still be processed by calling the person to correct or confirm it.

From the moment that the envelope is opened; What is the process and how long does it take to put the rubber stamp on it ?

I suspect there is a disturbance in the space time continuum here.
Information vanishes at one point in space-time and it appears at another point 3 weeks later.

[VK2MUS]

VK2XSO ( Trash) wrote They expect to see a final product presented to them

Boy the lad does some times get carried away a bit but generally he is right . If RA is expecting to increase the number of hams which the foundation license is or was designed to do then there needs to be some change of thinking to not only to get the foundation members but to retain them. I cannot comment on the inner workings of the WIA (as yet) however from reading the forum posts which I did from front to back while waiting for the License to arrive there appears to be some disapproval of the inner workings of the WIA and its handling of the licensing procedure.

Mind you I had a very pleasurable experience in undertaking the exam at the Hamfest but I was of the opinion that the progress from that day to yesterday to receive my license was a tad long. I was also surprised to find that the paper work I finally received was a certificate with no link to my license number or call sign (maybe I have not as yet received all the paper work). .

I am a bit unusual in that I have had experience with the system back in the late 50’s early 60’s and yep it has improved in that a person be they young or as old as I am can very quickly get their operators license and be on the air with their black box and long wire. But therein I have some problems.

The foundation license in my view as badly designed – it was born with the intent of increasing the number of operators – a political agenda more so then a kind gesture to the electronically uninformed. There is nothing wrong in this we need more operators on the air to increase our lobby power. However the situation between the 50’s/60’s has changed some what – back then I could not simply go down to a radio shop and buy a black box or if I could they were of a price well above the means of the ordinary person so ex war surplus gear was used and one needed a fair amount of knowledge to mod them. Today any person can walk in to the Hamfest or a radio store and buy the latest greatest black box at a reasonable price. And this is what (by design) the Foundation operator does.

Ok before you ‘not another Trash in the making’ I am upgrading not because I want to build radios – I did that in the 60’s I don’t need to do that now in my senior years and for the life of me I do not understand how building a radio will make me a better radio operator but if I want to play with the big boys on 20M I have to dig deep in the old brain cells to retrieve that information I have not used in over 50 years. For no other reason but to increase the wattage and band usage. It is not logical – at my age I just want to operate (and there are a lot of seniors getting their foundation license).

Some will say hey but it’s a privilege you have to abide by the rules set down in the 50’s - getting your license is not a privilege – it’s a right given to an Australian citizen by an act of parliament. I can get a drivers license without having a degree in mechanical engineering or even a basic knowledge of how the car works. The most important things I need to know at the moment is what menu setting I use to set the power levels to 10W and what menu setting I need to set the mic gain

Having said that I shall do a reverse – I think the foundation license is far too easy and should be formalized more no not towards the electronic theory but towards correct operations , more detail on interference, modes, digital, safety and procedure. Probably more on antenna theory – ie we should be aiming for good operators and who know how to operate their black boxes correctly and all things that hang off them. Maybe even under supervision of a standard or advanced operator even build a kit and use it if they desire and at this basic level use a little more power then the 10W. The band allocation I do agree with – and that becomes the incentive to move to the next license grade. . At least the foundation license can then take pride that they had to work a little harder to obtain their operators license. And will renew it the next year and the year after which is the true aim of the foundation grade. I did not get my foundation license to safeguard a S or A calls right to use certain freqs. I got it to operate however by operating I indirectly safe guard the allocations.

I really think that some one out there be it the WIA or some one else needs to rethink the entry requirements bring it out of the 50’s into the modern world. As to fees yep I think the $20 is a rip off, the exam fees – when the assessors are not being paid for their time again a possible rip off but then its one of the cheapest fees for a government license.

I will pass the soapbox back to Trash

[VK3MJC]

Well, here's my recent experience..

Sat the exams for an upgrade F -> S on Sunday April 3rd. Was told I'd passed, so resigned myself to a 4-6 week wait for it to all be processed. As my F license had expired on the 31st of March, I was content to stay off air for those 4-6 weeks.

Yesterday (11th April) I got home to find a message on the answering machine to call Simone(?) from the ACMA. As it was after 1730, it had to wait. Checked my email and found 2 emails from the ACMA - one was an email stating that "I have received your license variation application, unfortunately I canno process it until the renewal has been paid" (with an attached renewal notice). The 2nd email was an email saying that the previous email had been "Recalled".

Rang the ACMA this morning, and was told that everything had been processed and I was good to go - My new callsign is in the database and I will have the paperwork by the end of the week. They had checked the dates between F-call expiry and the variation form arriving to them and processed it through anyway (hence the 2nd email being a "recall" of the 1st).

So, 6 working days from sitting the exams to having my new call (10 working days if I'd waited for the paperwork to arrive). Can't really complain about that.

[VK6POP]

Thanks VK2FJRS (hope i got that right - your post is out of sight while I"m typing

"Having said that I shall do a reverse – I think the foundation license is far too easy and should be formalized more no not towards the electronic theory but towards correct operations , more detail on interference, modes, digital, safety and procedure. Probably more on antenna theory – ie we should be aiming for good operators and who know how to operate their black boxes correctly and all things that hang off them."

If people can get away with reading the manual and sitting a test at a Hamfest, then lack of understanding of correct on-air procedures is a predictable outcome. I lead a team that has brought a lot of people, mostly youth, into the hobby over the last few years, and early on I recognised that the weekend cram course/assessment wasnt good for young people - I introduced 4 and 5 day "schools" during School Holidays, where the young folk receive coaching in the practical, on-air aspects of the hobby.

It's also up to all of us to lead by example - Most newbies are a bit nervous about getitng on air - and will pay a lot of attention to how experienced people operate. Myself, I listened on air for weeks before I got my license, and received encouragement from other Hams both on and off air.

It warmed my heart, last night on the way to work, to hear a 14 year old recent graduate of our last school on air on one of the local repeaters. His on-air technique in the QSO was impeccable.

Finally, the teaching/assessment system was set up mostly through clubs so that newcomers could be embraced by the clubs to nuture them in the hobby.

cheers
Bob
VK6POP

[VK3FVKI]

I fully agree with you.
Although Even if the costs were less it' still seems like all too much effort for the average young person.
so if we have any chance of keeping the hobby alive we certainly need to reduce costs & we need to make it seem more cool
& share the hobby & spread the word more... Also, we as hams need to be more fun. there is no need or legal requirement to be monotone & dull...
Lets liven things up a bit & make it more fun & attractive... 73 to Yawl
VK3FVKI

[VK4WDM]

"Also, we as hams need to be more fun. there is no need or legal requirement to be monotone & dull...
Lets liven things up a bit & make it more fun & attractive"

I am 69 yrs old and been a ham for nearly 50 yrs, and I agree with the above provided it does not compromise good operating practice. And yes, there should be a reduced licence fee for those who are not yet working and earning an income (and for those who no longer earn and income).

Not really on topic, but we need to ditch the silly "F" suffix. It does not combine well with a young voice (especially a female one) and 10 watts). I heard an F call last night trying to get his call through to a EU station on 15m who could not grasp he was supposed to copy a 4 letter suffix. After several tries the EU said "no copy" and went back to calling CQ. I had a shot at working him to put him straight on F callsigns but he picked out another station.

73

Wayne VK4WDM (hopefully still funny and attractive )

[VK4TS]

The costs of the F call are considerable for the newcomer but in line with the costs of any other activity..

Could it work on the old Russian Club station style principle's where the trainee operators use the club station ? I know they dont exist in all area's...

We encourage newcomers to sit an exam F call style without the fees and then allow them to use club stations under supervision. Maybe even a full remote internet station that can only be accessed when a "supervisor" is present ?

It gives them mentoring and experience at the same time..Needs work but I think the concept could work comrades..

[VK2MUS]

It gives them mentoring and experience at the same time..Needs work but I think the concept could work comrades..

like the idea of mentoring and gaining experience however draw up a map of Australia and place a dot where ever there is a club.
Now take the Hunter valley as an example - there are clubs in Newcastle and suburbs and a club in Tamworth - train services for the upper hunter is non existent unless one wants to make an over night stay in a hotel which of course would be more then a young person could afford. Take the western district and you would need to travel down to Orange again a bit too much for a young person in say the Dubbo district.

These ideas are good but we simply lack the resources in Australia to make them work. In the cities it is an easy matter to travel to a club in some far off suburb by train or buss however out in the never never ( which is not far out of town) to travel to even the next town to go to the pictures is a major problem.
John

[VK4TS]

. In the cities it is an easy matter to travel to a club in some far off suburb by train or buss however out in the never never ( which is not far out of town) to travel to even the next town to go to the pictures is a major problem.

Do these places not have internet ? Remote bases are the solution with "supervisors"

[VK2MUS]

Do these places not have internet ? Remote bases are the solution with "supervisors"

I use remote tuners now and then here however at the farm I only had internet and TV via Satellite (my land line modem connection was a fast 56K if the termites had not moved into the pill boxes) - once you get into VoIP etc then satellite has problems with the delay. Once the NBN comes in and the high speed Satellite is in place then a lot more is possible with the internet in the rural areas but then will we now have the NBN??

I would like to see more clubs in the rural areas but then one can only have them if there are the numbers. I would like to see a network of foundation members and standard members being built up via the Men shed network thro the rural areas . The men sheds network is becoming strong right thro the rural areas - it would be a fast way of increasing the usage of vhf and UHF and build a strong 2m network across the country. They would be different from the existing clubs in that Radio would only be a part of the activities but effective in increasing the membership to the hobby and as points in the rural areas to train new operators. But this requires thinking completely outside the box

John

[VK3MEG]

I sat my standard upgrade last year in the course there was 5 other people most had had their f call for more that 1 year 4 had not picked up a microphone in that time. that to me was shocking. yet they were all fronting up to upgrade why bother if you dont use it. btw none were under 25.
cheers

[VK4TS]

Mens shed and no one under 25 ? They have been mentioned on the forum before John

The advantage with Men's shed is that they have, in general the expendable cash to put it into action - they have time to devote and the group volume to generate the interest.

One of my contacts is very senior in the Men's shed movement -He is paid to establish new outlets. I will have a chat with him and see what transpires.

[VK5ZLR]

Do these places not have internet ? Remote bases are the solution with "supervisors"

Not in any meaningful way that would allow real time audio. The best I can do here is about 14k, when the propagation works. No landline.

About 95% of Australia has this level of internet -or worse.

[VK4TS]

About 95% of Australia has this level of internet -or worse.

Wonder what percentage of the population is covered in this ? I would wager less than 1% ...

73.4% of statistics are made up..

[VK2MUS]

Mens shed and no one under 25 ? They have been mentioned on the forum before John

The advantage with Men's shed is that they have, in general the expendable cash to put it into action - they have time to devote and the group volume to generate the interest.

One of my contacts is very senior in the Men's shed movement -He is paid to establish new outlets. I will have a chat with him and see what transpires.

actually the topic of amateur Radio is quite active on the men shed forums and a number of sheds especially those in the city have or are looking at it. Funding for the sheds is via Federal Funding ( if that funding is to stay or stop is any ones guess at present) and in areas such as the Upper Hunter etc where there are coal mines there is a source of funding from the Coal companies. Apart from their time to devote they also have the ability once bitten with the AR bug to promote it to their local schools and provide training.
John

[VK2MUS]

About 95% of Australia has this level of internet -or worse.

Wonder what percentage of the population is covered in this ? I would wager less than 1% ...

73.4% of statistics are made up..

actually on 1991 figures 15% of the population lived in towns of 1000 people or less.

On 2010 figures
15.1 million people lived in major cities, 4.3 million in inner regional areas, 2.1 million in outer regional areas, 324,000 in remote areas and 174,000 in very remote areas

Regional and remote areas are at least 40% less likely to have Broadband access relative to major cities. The likelihood of any Internet access is relatively higher, but still considerably lower than major cities. Internet access is basically dial up which runs at a max of 56 but hardly ever maintained on the old copper lines Broadband is generally satellite service both ways or Satellite down phone up.

of course over 73.4% of statistics in this case are from the Census

Relying on internet or even phone for providing any service is a problem in the rural areas at the moment.

John


John

[VK3DQ]

Hi Folks

Just a thought on young people.

I have assessed / trained a considerable of youngsters over the last five years , It always nice to see them obtain their licenses. However the problem is that most of them drop out of the hobby after a couple of years !

I submit that we should be concentrating our main efforts on Families , IE Mum Dad and the Kids.

Youngsters in isolation will wither on the vine , and its not the same as it was years ago when a youngster would visit a local hams shack, most parents would not be happy with little John spending time with someone as strange as a radio ham


If we get mom and dad involved , we are well under way in establishing a ham radio family ....

Also we have for years ignored over 50% of the population .. WOMEN , I encourage you all to think about encouraging the ladies into our hobby , it can be very rewarding, and having a few ladies around cannot be anything other than a great bonus for amateur radio

I conduct a special YL only foundation course once a year , they are all fully subscribed and so far have a 100% success rate

In the last two years I know of approx 20 ladies in my area of VK3 entering the hobby , a number of them are very active and a credit to AR .... Please don't discount this as a valid sensible way to encourage the entire family to enjoy our hobby , I submit that Families are our future


Best 73 John Vk3dq Assessor 3-044

[VK2FABS]

Interesting topic!

Being a new F-call holder and being the father of a teenage boy, I'd say that AR has lots much of the cool factor that it had for decades past. Chatting with him and his friends, iPhone/iPad and FB/Twitter IM are their default mode of communication, texts, photos and video included. AR is no longer a high profile tool for "social networking". As for the exotic aspect of DX, well, there are so many more alternate paths out there to foreigners. So why use AR to DX someone who can't talk the language of the younger generation when FB/Twitter has already linked them? I see activities like radio links with the ISS to be one that has brought back the cool factor, but how does one sustain all that interest when ISS is not overhead? Society and base level technology has changed dramatically since the heydays of AR. Further, so few kids see AR activities and gears these days. Until I started to dabble in AR, my young one had no ideas. To bring the level of interest up, I think it's much more than just licensing and cost. I think the club as well as every ham can make a real difference, but giving greater exposure to the technology and demonstrate the "fun" and cool aspects of the hobby. Right now, unless I Google and seek, there just aren't any exposure or contact with AR in the society. More open days? More demo sessions in school? Interface with the school curriculum? Not easy.

Finally, to answer the question on cost. Well, as a father, I think it's a value call. If my son isn't going to be actively involved or have a regular avenue to explore and participate in the field, that $XX/year licence fee would not be one I am willing to support. If there are regular activities that he and his peers can participate in, then the present cost base is quite acceptable. At present, the infrastructure just isn't there. I may get him to study and sit for a F call exam this coming summer holiday, but I can't see him using it much more than with me when the family is out bushwalking amongst other activities. An unfortunate state of affair. I can see how SOTA and hill top activities may be of interest to the energetic young boys and girls. But until I have more experiences myself, there's no one else around who can guide him or his friends.

[VK4WDM]

If we get mom and dad involved , we are well under way in establishing a ham radio family

I look up a lot of call signs on QRZ and what is obvious is how many "ham families"with wives and children holding licenses there are in the USA. What are they doing to encourage women and children into the hobby that we are not?

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK2FABS]

Whilst driving just earlier, thought of some more issues.

These days, the cool geeky boys and girls are writing blogs, setting up fancy web sites, compiling java/C++ codes and hacking networks for the naughty ones. And what does AR offer with F-call? No digital modes and no connection to a computer amongst other restrictions that are more suited to kindergarten kids who are learning to talk on the phone. Afraid to say, the thinking on licence is no longer with the times if the objective is to attract new and younger participants.

I hear there'll be some changes on this in the LCD review that's due out in 2015. Maybe there's hope yet... But seemed to be way delayed to be calling it an active initiative.