ACMA inspecting lots of F Calls

[VK3ZFS]

I belive a radio with wide tx coverage has no merit to be illegal, in any case home brew TX using a DDS oscillator is in effect a wide range TX, its up to the OPERATOR to use it within there LICENCE, you should not make any radios used by hams to be hard wired to TX ONLY in ham alocated TX freq for the class of the licence, the law as it stands, is fine to use any radio apperatus within your licence (freq/power/emmision bandwith) as we do 99.99% of the time, I guess the ACMA raids/visits are a bit of flag waving that ACMA is doing its job

[VK5ZD]

Hi

The law is always a matter of interpretation until a court ruling is made. Maybe someone in the legal profession can advise on the any such cases as they apply to licenced amateur operators.

Section 46 covers operation. No argument from me here. Transmitting outside the frequencies authorised by your licence is illegal.
Section 47 covers possession and, as has been pointed out, it states "a person must not have a radiocommunications device in his or her possession for the purpose of operating the device otherwise than as authorised by: (a) a spectrum licence; or (b) an apparatus licence; or (c) a class licence.".

Assume I have a transmitter capable of transmitting on any frequency. My interpretation of section 47 is, provided that I have it only for the purpose of transmitting on the amateur bands, then I'm OK (others are free to disagree with this opinion).

If this is not the case, then a lot of us are in trouble. It would be illegal for a foundation licence holder to own an HF radio that can transmit on, say, the 160m or 20m bands. It would be illegal for any amateur operator to own, say, an FT-101 which can transmit on frequencies like 3.9MHz, 14.5MHz, etc.

73
Iain

[VK3LAJ]

Why then would an inspector be checking that a radio can or cannot tx out of band?

[VK2CJC]

>>Assume I have a transmitter capable of transmitting on any frequency. My interpretation of section 47 is, provided that I have it only for the purpose of transmitting on the amateur bands, then I'm OK

Up until yesterday I would have agreed with you Iain. But after this weeks "raids", reading the radcoms act and seeing the reply from the ACMA that vk3laj got, it is very clear that the huge majority of unmodified radio equipment which is intended for amateur use, is actually in contravention of the radcoms act.

>> If it is programmable from the front keyboard onto TX frequencies outside of the amateur bands it is not permitted.

Nobody can argue with that. It came straight from the bloke who hands out the fines.

I wonder what the WIA top ranks think of this? After all, they all own illegal radios too

[VK3ZFS]

Im guessing 80% of the problem lies above 30Mhz, with extendered TX range.
As a side issue its very commom knowelege in the 4x4 HF nets/groups many have Ham Rigs with extended range Its very common knows as the MARS Mods.

[VK4WDM]

Does that mean that a standard license holder who has a radio that covers 50-54 MHZ can be fined because that class of license can only operate in above 52 MHZ? Or an operator on the east coast be fined for having the capability of transmitting above 50.3 MHZ?

What will happen if/when the 70cm band limits are changed. Will all our radios have to be modified to suit the new band limits, and the ones that cannot be modified destroyed?

What about the proud owners of "vintage radio" set ups? All of them will transmit from 3.5 to 3.9 MHZ. Looks like all that gear will have to go in the crusher!

Its all starting to look a bit silly! Its something that the WIA needs to act upon very quickly!

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK3AIF]

Hmmmm,

How does one define a transmitter? My unreasoned and not thought through brief thoughts below

I have a range of signal sources here all capable of generating out of band RF. From humble GDO's of which I have 3, a couple of antenna analyzers one of which is ex military and has warnings all over it "not to be used while observing radio silence" and probably capable of several watts over a wide frequency range, a few signal generators, a few external VFO's and oscillators etc. All if connected to an amplifier and miss used could potentially cause harmful interference. I have WiFi, blue tooth not to mention the the tunable outputs of VCR's, set top boxes and unintentional radiators such as TV's, microwave ovens and computers.

There are other transmitters as well such as remote garage door openers, X10 home automation devices and key-less car entry remotes. Some would be covered by a license category in their native state but could be modified for illegal purposes if someone so desired so just because a transceiver or whatever can be misused does not mean an offense has been committed. I think if someone had some piece of equipment without a valid reason and the only potential use was illegal, that is a different matter, like I cannot think of any justification for anyone having for example a sub machine gun with boxes of ammo stashed somewhere but I can think of reasons some may need a machete. If I was to have a moto cross bike in the shed, is that illegal? It could be ridden on the road or footpath but that does not mean it will be?

If common sense did not prevail it could open a real can of worms. I also have quite a few surplus commercial boxes that have not yet been converted to amateur service but could be one day? I have, as has been mentioned earlier, unmodified amateur gear all of which is able to TX outside the Australian amateur allocations and is not readily changed so that it wont. I will not say it is impossible but how does one make an analogue VFO stop at the band edges when each band has a different width not to mention the one with a gap in the middle?

It has to be up to the individual to make certain he or she stays within the regulations including respecting the rights of others. Overall I think it is great that the ACMA is waving the flag, there has been too little involvement from them for too long in my opinion but I think also, one is innocent until proven otherwise and as long as they are exercising their powers reasonably they have my support.

Cheers VK3AIF

[VK2XSO]

Why then would an inspector be checking that a radio can or cannot tx out of band? This occured to many hams and I know some people got done!

So the question has to be asked, "What are you really looking for ?"
It might be worth asking them straight, and without the cover story.
All I've seen so far in this thread is rumour. There does not appear to be any solid evidence as to a motive.

I'm being impartial, "Who has 'got done' ?"
I have to ask; Is there anybody who can say that they have, or have seen the ticket being held by the person who is making the claim ?

It doesn't make sense to pursue amateurs unless there is some very specific reason they suspect a ham.
It would be like chasing licensed gun owners in an area after an armed robbery.

An example to this would be three robberies where the offender used one type of gun, then another and then the originals for the third.
It wouldn't be conclusive evidence, but it is unusual enough to imply a possibility.

So either the radio inspectors are just bored and enjoying some days in the field or they have some very specific agenda.

A ham accidentally transmitting somewhere he shouldn't ? I'd think they might accidentally identify. That would not require a blanket search.
Walk straight to the source. We've seen this with accidental intruders to ham bands. Like long range cordless phones. Just ring the number and the problem goes away.

At the other end of the spectrum is the offender isn't a ham and searching hams serves no purpose and detracts from the real objective.

How does the inspector even know he is inspecting all of the equipment ? In my case the radios on the shack workbench are only a fraction of what I own.
Doing inspections it would imply they have no interest in the 426MHz ATV transmitter stored in the shed. They would expect the radio they are looking for is going to be attached to it's antennas because the trouble maker regularly uses it. The days of driving your 27MHz pirate CB to a remote hilltop are long gone.

So it may be that there has been a particular trouble maker operating say in the 477MHz band. This isn't anything unusual, the band is full of trouble makers.
It may be that the target speaks with a reasonable amount of radio education and/or has bragged. Other idiots have made complaints, which usually get ignored except that the complaints might have something in common with real complaints they have been investigating in some more important band.
An RF serial killer

So in that case the target would be educated and intelligent and may have made references to being a ham or spoken with ham lingo (suggesting he's a ham).
CBer says "swar", Ham says "v.S.W.R", Radio Engineer says "return loss".
The target may have bragged about other crimes, the ones being investigated out of both CB and Ham bands.

It might be fair to say that the constabulary would have already collected evidence of the radio crime. Without being able to directly hunt the target, they go to every possible target and key the transmitters looking for a matching fingerprint. If the radio is keyed, the monitor can determine when it occurred and who the suspect is. Or, the target reacts in a hostile way. Refusing to allow inspection of equipment (not an unreasonable response) may draw suspicion too.
They are then put under close scrutiny and evidence is collected against them.

When that evidence is overwhelming, then they move to prosecute.

Or, the simplest answer may be the most correct.
The VK3 WIA has had lots of complaints and has asked the ACMA to shake the tree and see if any monkeys fall out.

What we need is accurate information on the inspections, not second hand rumours.
The VK3 WIA would have been in contact with ACMA to determine if such inspections are even true and the reason behind them.

[VK2CJC]

Does that mean that a standard license holder who has a radio that covers 50-54 MHZ can be fined because that class of license can only operate in above 52 MHZ? Or an operator on the east coast be fined for having the capability of transmitting above 50.3 MHZ?

What will happen if/when the 70cm band limits are changed. Will all our radios have to be modified to suit the new band limits, and the ones that cannot be modified destroyed?

Going by the letter of the radcoms act, and the reply vk3laj got, YES!!!

It is ridiculous to look at this matter in such black and white terms.

Yes it is getting silly. And yes the WIA need to be made aware of this silliness.

[VK2CJC]

What we need is accurate information on the inspections, not second hand rumours.

In this thread there are three amateurs who had there stations inspected.
We've gone past second hand rumour to first hand discussion.

[VK3AIF]

I wonder if this has anything to do with it?

http://www.vicpolicenews.com.au/more-ne ... tions.html

From the Amateur Radio Victoria web site.

[VK3LAJ]

Comments Retracted

[VK4TIM]

OK, seems there may be an ACMA inspector out there who is deliberately asking people to do illegal things, and then booking them for it when they do.
If an inspector did ask you to TX out of band, feel free to decline, and remind him that to do so would be a breach of the regulations, would render you liable for compliance action. Play his game straight back to him. There is nothing illegal in doing that, but I doubt you'll please him!

Honeslty, if an inspector were to knock on my door and ask me to TX on 150 MHz using my Amateur gear, well, if I was stupid enough to do it and prove to him that I'm an idiot, well I would deserve a ticket.

I hope that if an inspector knocks on my door and tests my work portable radio that has (the vast majority of) frequencies outside Amateur bands, and is used as one of my work tools to listen to and talk to clients as required, that my employer will counter sue the ACMA for preventing me from being able to service our clients after normal business hours as required when faults occur.

As for some of my Amateur gear, I suspect some of my radios may TX outside Amateur bands, I haven't tried, so honestly don't know. My FT817 will TX out of Australian Amateur bands, as it has been used in ZL, for example, where the 80m band is 3500-3900kHz inclusive, with no gaps. Yes, it will transmit perfectly OK on say 3850kHz, as it has done so (when in ZL) in the past. There are many differences in the band limits between countries.
Just make sure that your Amateur gear does not have any non-Amateur frequencies programmed, and you should be right.

The silly rules need to be changed. If you have never caused any interference to services outside the Amateur bands, and you maintain and operate your equipment in accordance to the Amateur LCD, there should be no problems.

If the same rules were applied to cars, none of us would have a driver's licence. Let's get real here!

[VK3LAJ]

Guys,

This is getting out of hand and there is a lot of stuff being said that is probably not correct. I suggest if anyone wants clarification they read the LCD or contact the ACMA rather than speculation and false statements.

[VK2CJC]

Guys,

This is getting out of hand and there is a lot of stuff being said that is probably not correct. I suggest if anyone wants clarification they read the LCD or contact the ACMA rather than speculation and false statements.

But you already did contact the ACMA, and they said-

>> If it is programmable from the front keyboard onto TX frequencies outside of the amateur bands it is not permitted.

We just have to accept that until the rules are ammended to be more realistic, the vast majority of unmodified amateur radio gear is illegal.

[VK3LAJ]

Correct, however rather than speculate different interpretations of the legislation I suggest someone writes down their questions and asks the ACMA for a response.

I should also note that the inspector that came to my QTH was really nice about it and i wouldn't have any problems letting him back in. He was a nice guy.

To be safe, fix your gear that tx's out of band. (I literally dropped off my new (second hand) radio to a tech 2 hrs ago to get un-broadbanded)

[VK3GCP]

<Just to clarify for people who have just started reading this thread, I DID get inspected>

Agreed. What the RI said to me was that:
1) By owning it in it's "Current" (IE, Broadband TX) state, I was violating 3 sections of the Radiocommunications Act.
2) If I fixed it, no futher inquiries would be made.
3) If I did not, the penalties would be severe.

I will leave the definition of the laws up to other people, but it seems pretty clear cut to me.
Behave yourself, fix problems (known or un-known, pointed out) and you will not have an issue.

That is the advice I give! =D

[VK2GOM]

WIA, step in please and represent us and the manufacturers.

73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[VK4WDM]

Does programmable from the front key board also mean "tuned by the VFO knob on the front"? If it does, then a lot of hams, including this one, are very deep in the brown stuff, and the solution is not as easy as "dropping it into a tech to have it modified" as suggested by VK3FGCP.

VK4KG, the station at the Townsville RAAF Museum for instance, uses ham equipment from the 1960's that is able to transmit on 3.5-3.9 MHZ. It also uses WW2-vintage crystal-controlled military transmitters that can transmit outside the ham bands by simply inserting another crystal. What about some kit-built QRP equipment that will transmit over quite a range of frequencies just by changing the crystal.

This whole thing is crazy! The law should simply state that transmitting outside of the bands is illegal.

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK3ALB]

The current radio communications act has been in place since 1992. Since that time many many radio from different manufacturers have come off the production line and been sold and traded in Australia. Even the good 'ol Wouxun has been out there for at least a year and as far as I can tell there has been no wholesale confiscation of radios nor are our gaols full of amateur radio operators. It seems to me that the clauses in the radcom act have not made criminals out of us in any practical sense.

Several weeks ago stories of amateurs being visited by the ACMA started surfacing. I know two people that were visited by the ACMA and in each case their radio were checked for compliance (specifically out of band TX) and that was it. Neither operator appeared before a judge or was fined nor was their gear confiscated. Two contributors to this thread were visited and are still with us and still have their equipment. From my understanding they too had their equipment checked for out of band TX and it wasn't just above our 80m or 160m band it was 27MHz and 150MHz, miles away from any of the amateur bands and somewhere that none of us are permitted to work as part of our amateur license conditions. They had a chat with the RI who told them how/what they had to fix and it seems they will do just that. Anthony even said he'd be happy to have the bloke back again. Where's the problem?

This weekend the sky seems to have fallen in on the Australian Amateur fraternity on the logger and there are claims that we're all operating outside the law and calls for changes to the legislation etc, etc. I can't fathom why. The ACMA are sending out men to do a job that they're paid to do. I think it's good that we are aware of their visits and it seems from what I know and what we've heard on this forum that the visits are amicable and relatively painless.

If you think you need to do something practical about this situation, write to the WIA and ask them if they know what is going on or better still, make sure your station is up to scratch. I did and I was surprised to find some of my radios were modified to TX outside the amateur bands. It took me a few hours to find the information I needed and reverse the mods. I learned something and I got to play inside my radios for the afternoon. What a nice ham radio kind of day.

Anthony and Gerard, the only two people in this discussion that have been visited by the ACMA gave us all the best advice.

Get your station in order.

Well done guys.