ACMA inspecting lots of F Calls

[VK3ALB]

I do have a question though - where do the regs say that hams are not allowed to own equipment that has the capability of operating outside the ham bands?

Have a look at the Radio Communications Act 1992 - Section 46 to 49

http://www.wia.org.au/members/legislati ... 5B1%5D.pdf

[VK6MB]

I do have a question though.

"The RI had issued many infringement notices over the weekend for non conforming (i.e TX out of band) equipment."


Where do the regs say that hams are not allowed to own equipment that has the capability of operating outside the ham bands?

73

Wayne VK4WDM

Looking at it from another angle - what equipment is available to F calls if you can't own txs that can tx out of band. Standard calls also for that matter - most rigs have 160m + WARC + 50-52MHz
I think parts of the 6m band are not available to advanced calls in the eastern states - do they have to get their tx modified?
Cheers Mike

[VK2GOM]

All a bit woolly I'm afraid. I didn't see any words that specifically say so but if owning out-of-band capable gear is construed to be illegal, that would consign most old vintage VFO-driven HF rigs to the dustbin or the radio amnesty as they will all transmit out of band. Who remembers the band marker tone on some of the old rigs to make sure you didn't stray out of band?

It's only with modern synth-driven gear and firmware that manufacturers can put hard stops on tx band capability.

73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[VK2XSO]

My friend also reported the RI had "issued many infringement notices" over the weekend for non conforming (i.e TX out of band) equipment.

Sounds like the good cop, bad cop routine. Most likely they haven't issued even a smilie stamp.
It's just easier to put the rumour out there that they're kicking heads.

An interesting example of a radio that would be the test is the Yaesu FT767.
I have given it to a relative. It has the HF switch in ...err. the other position
Now it transmits 10W full power on VHF/UHF and uses the same power control for HF.
The RI comes knocking on the door, apart from being told to "go away", he is invited in.
He finds the radio with the power knob up high when the radio has been listing for traffic on 27.355 LSB
as an indication of 10m conditions.
It is still very unlikely that anything would come of this situation. As mentioned a smoking gun is not evidence beyond even reasonable doubt of a murder. In the case of "radio crimes" we're dealing with the Australian federal court system. Dragging small cases into the federal court system becomes very expensive and it is not worth the effort. Not to mention that federal crimes are very different from state crimes. Even an "on the spot fine" is a ticket to hell, you'd be nuts not to fight any charge at that level.

If there was actually somebody who was dopey enough to be such a major nuisance like jamming police comms, then it would be worth prosecuting them at the federal level. Or more likely, they would just be handed over to the state police and another similar and easier to prosecute charge would be filed against them.

I would think that either the ACMA has some sort of lead on a trouble maker (which would seem unlikely).

Or the VK3 WIA has asked them to stir the pot to shake down all those naughty F calls

[VK2CJC]

absolutely correct. The laws do not refelct reality (as is so often the case)

I have 4 HF rigs here, none of them are modified in any way and 3 of them could be made to tx out of band. ie, FT101ZD which has 3.5 to 4MHz for the 80m band.

The rules should be updated.

[VK5ACY]

This quoted bit has pointy hooks.....

"due to damage being done on a local secure repeater site, both commercial and amateur band."

In recent years many cheapish (Chinese !) portable radios have sold on various sites/shops which proudly claim "137-174MHz TX/RX" and "400-480MHzTX/RX"..
These radios can be easily programmed and operated by anyone, anywhere and any time ! These radios will be getting programmed and used on both Amateur and Commercial frequencies by various persons be they Amateurs or not !

Even 20 years ago and earlier some (genuine, nuisance) pests were programming used Commercial transceivers for 25W operation on the 40 UHF-CB channels AND various Commercial/Police/fire/Ambulance frequencies and they were making transmissions including profanities on (especially, for some anti-social misfits/dickheads) the South Australian Police repeaters. I heard some of these comments/music/profanities/inanities myself when casually scanning for leisure, and can state absolutely that these voices were those of the persistent idiots on he Adelaide UHF-CB repeaters.

When I lived South of Adelaide I stumbled across a local four-wheel-drive association's 'private channel' on about 422MHz - all these blokes had VERTEX Commercial radios - all running 25W - programmed for UHF-CB as well, and talked of their operation on a Commercial repeater after working hours when said repeater was not busy. I never managed to locate/tune the repeater being used but recall a comment mentioning "Monier Concrete" or similar. I called into a group conversation these blokes were having and asked some questions about their radio gear - I was actually operating illegally due to these operators being unlicensed for 70cm, but at least I was within a legitimate Amateur Band (crikey, I hope 420-430 MHz was still available to me then ! ). The conversation went for a few overs discussing their gear and operation and when asked why they had radios other than standard/legitimate their answer/reason was "we get better range and no interference from 'dickheads' as found on the 40 UHF-CB range." I guess that's a pretty good reason....

Just last week I took possession of a new (Ebay, Chinese, cheap) WOUXUN dualband portable transceiver which, with extra accessories, cost Mr. Visa around $150. This transceiver 'out of the box' will receive and transmit real RF from 136 to 174 MHz and 420 to 480MHz - and I don't believe I am breaking any laws by owning such a device. I am sure the use of the radio (TX) on any/all frequencies/bands outside those for which I am licensed is naughty !
(I have here a very small PC application (found on this internet-thingy) with which such radios can be programmed for TX or RX operation in selected bands...(you might want it VK4CP !) The same application allowed me to program 400 to 520 MHz, and force it to tune down into the Aircraft Band (RX remains NBFM, but words do exit the speaker enough to hear the local ATIS for a wind/temperature report . . )
[/i]
So, on the subject of gear which can/will TX outside your legitimate bands being 'illegal', consider this....almost all modern rigs will TX 'out of band' - and I don't mean a software mod, on-board diode/link manipulation or 'snip the purple wire at Pin 9 of J2' - type modification....simply rotate that big VFO knob past 14.350 MHz (most radios go to at least 14.500 MHz) or that chunk of spectrum between 3700 and 4000 kHz ! This surely 'puts to bed' this talk regarding the legality of 'possession of equipment capable'...does it not ?

EDIT NOTE:- New posts appeared within this thread as I was very slowly, one-finger-typing, my most wordy reply. I have effectively repeated some points.

[VK2CJC]

>> This surely 'puts to bed' this talk regarding the legality of 'possession of equipment capable'...does it not ?

I would like to think it does. (I have one of those dual band chinese radios as well)
But according to the radcoms act I only discovered yesterday, we are all breaking the law by owning a radio capable of operating on frequencies not covered by our licenses. Even if it is just a little bit above and below our band. that is, apparently, not allowed.

So who is to decide if we are as bad as the pirates/abusers mentioned above? The RIs? Are they police, judge and jury now? A case of "oh hes OK, he can break the law, I know him".

The rules dont reflect common practises or common sense. Maybe its time for adjustment.

[VK2HRX]

The jails wont be big enough for us all!
Put your HF rig modified or not on 3.699.99 MHz and key it. Is your transmission out of band?
We are all doomed!!
Compton
Cell# J45, next to Mr Bubba

[VK4TIM]

The "being in possession" rule is really, in my view a bit of a hangover from years gone by, and quite irrelevant.

Heck, I have a box of ex-commercial UHF radios in my garage that are currently set up to operate in the 440-470 MHz band, these have mostly been converted into the 400-440 MHz range and programmed with 430-440 MHz frequencies.
Even if one of these was programmed with 440-450MHz frequencies, would it be illegal? Still, nope.

My belief is that it is illegal to operate outside the amateur bands, and not illegal to have equipment that could be potentially operated outside the Amateur bands.

The same sort of silly rules could be applied to modern vehicles. Am I breaking the law because my Commodore is capable of travelling at speeds greater than 110kmh? Nope. Am I breaking the law if I drive my Commodore at speeds greater than 110kmh? You betcha!

The man from the ACMA is welcome to drop by and inspect any of my equipment which is at present set up to be operated. This could include the quad bander in my car.

[VK3GCP]

when they came to visit me, they asked me to key up on 150 meg. They mentioned something along the lines of interference to the police.

[VK2CJC]

>> when they came to visit me, they asked me to key up on 150 meg. They mentioned something along the lines of interference to the police.

Ah, all becomes clear.

Someone is keying up on a police repeater, so obviously it must be a licensed amateur. (sarcasm intended)

So are all these station inspections spread over the whole city/area? Or localised? I wonder if they are a result of DFing the interfering signal, or just pesecution of the easiest target.

[VK3LAJ]

FYI they werent specifically targeting F-Calls - I got inspected and i know of another half dozen in my town (Pakenham S/E Melb) that got inspected also.

He said they were doing random inspections and checked all radios for out of band TX

Each radio was tuned out of ham bands (ie 27mhz CB and 477Mhz UHF CB) and hit PTT. I think he was just looking at the TX light as no external testing gear was used.

LUCKILY my gear passed (It was all second hand and i'd never actually checked if the previous owners did any tinkering)

Just a warning to all - Check your next second hand purchases for out of band TX as a cheap radio wont be so cheap when the ACMA wack a nice fine on ya.

[VK2CJC]

I've checked all mine, and my Elecraft K2 will transmit on 27megs. Probably not very well as the 10m pass band filters are centered about 28.5.

But thats me screwed if I get a visit. I am a criminal harbouring an illegal Elecraft.

This isnt quite the black and white issue the ACMA seem to be wanting it to be. A lot of grey areas.

And its a little ironic that my Electraft is actually painted grey

[VK5ACY]

...so "the ACMA" people think it's only Amateur Operators - F-calls or other - who can program a $50 EBAY radio and press the button ?

The interference is far more likely to be coming from anti-social and unlicensed 'freebanders' who take delight in performing "modifications" with zero technical knowledge or expertise. There is a mindset amongst some individuals where enjoyment comes from interfering or annoying others....just listen to any UHF-CB repeater in any big city.

There are a few 'freebanders' who have gained an 'F Call' by passing 'the exam' but have gone back to the world of 27.500 MHz and above because there are no rules...... They can run their modified 100W (and more) gear like they have always done !

Have a tune above the normal 40 channel HF-CB 'channels' when '11 metres' is open and listen to some of the equipment descriptions - including many Amateur rigs, FL2100Zs, SB200s....read the 'for sale' adverts which mention '11 metre coverage'...

Maybe these visits to Amateur Operators is the only available way the ACMA has of getting the word around that the ACMA is looking for the source of the interference, the anti-social/unlicensed operators don't freely share their street addresses !

Another maybe...it is possible that a licensed operator is causing the interference....if so I hope he is strung up ! An example could be set...

[VK5ZD]

Hi

It is not illegal to own a radio that can transmit outside the amateur bands.
It is illegal to operate a transmitter outside the frequencies permitted by your licence.

73
Iain

[VK2CJC]

You need to look at the Radcom act of 92.

http://www.wia.org.au/members/legislati ... omact1992/

Section 46 to 49 covers possession of transmitters.

[VK3ZFS]

In Melbourne West area a number of CB operators are now F calls, talking open about the imported chineese hand held and how well frequency adjile coverage, get on late at nite on Melb 70cm repeters you hear them all the time.
I sould not generlise, but its a fact too many radio bogans are now F calls.

[VK3LAJ]

by VK5ZD » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:01 am

Hi

It is not illegal to own a radio that can transmit outside the amateur bands.
It is illegal to operate a transmitter outside the frequencies permitted by your licence.

73
Iain

You are 50% incorrect. It is illegal to own a radio capable of out of band TX.

[VK2CSW]

Which pretty much means every amateur who owns a FT857d or FT 897d are in breach of the act - from the front panel they can be set up to Tx out of band (especially easy for 5MHz).

Ah well, Lithgow or Malabar here I come...

[VK2CJC]

I reckon about 90% of equipment in use breaches the act. Most radios go out of band, even if just a little.

These rules do not match common practise or common sense. They need changed.