Does this sound like powerpole noise?

[VK2GOM]

A quick recording of what I can hear on HF from here.

Antenna is a broadband long wire. This is the sort of noise I hear 24/7, 365 days a year.

Any trained ears out there? Power pole noise?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKNoIriSyXg



73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[VK3ZYC]

I had a listen and think i can here a 50hz component in there.

You need to look with a spectrum analyser, and see what the frequency components are.

seems to be power line leakage, from the audio posted.

usually a walk around the streets nearby, on a damp night and you can hear it if its on the 22kv line of higher voltage lines.

i had one nearly by, could actually see the arcing. they came and replaced that faulty insulator and several others.

good hunting, jim.

[VK4GHZ]

Rob, I know you mentioned it is there 24/7/365, but does it temporarily go away or become less of a problem after a shower of rain?
If that is the case, then yes, it is most likely power line noise.

Power line QRN becomes a big problem is summer, when the insulators are very dry.
This used to be a big problem on 6M during summer Es season, when I lived in Melbourne.
The overhead power lines ran along my side of the street.

Irrespective of what is causing the QRN, can you use a directional antenna to pinpoint a particular direction?
Not required on all bands, because you have demonstrated it is across most bands, so whichever band is most convenient to have an antenna with reasonable F/B.
Maybe a close-by neighbor has some disgusting appliance that is causing your grief.
... for some reason, a plasma television comes to mind first!
(From what I understand, these grotty things are on the verge of being banned in the EU, because they are such an electricity hog.)

Have you tried going pedestrian mobile to sniff out possible sources?

Needless to say, when I settled in Brisbane, one of the prime requirements for selecting a suburban QTH was underground power.

I think you need to move!

[VK2GOM]

Hi Adam and Jim,

I did some tests a few weeks ago with my 2m handheld, since when my 2m yagi points at a particular power pole about 75m away, I see a large rise in noise in Spectrum lab, although it's not as invasive as my HF noise.

I took a walk towards the pole with the 2m hand held tuned on AM mode. The noise got louder until when I was stood under the pole, it sounded like a machine gun, showing S9 on my little Yaesu with the helical antenna broadside to the equipment up on the pole.

I am looking at knocking up a small (3 or 4ele) 70cm handheld yagi and doing some more directional tests, to find out where on the pole the problem peaks. I am assuming I will still hear the problem on 70cm... At least that band makes a more covert antenna to avoid raising too much suspicion from passers-by.

And to answer your question about decreased noise in rain etc. - yes - sometimes it is not as bad (maybe S7 all bands), but I had not correlated it to humidity or rain. That could well be the case though.

I don't think it's plasma TV noise. That is well documented on YouTube, and has all sorts of musical square wave type 'tones' to the QRN as you tune around. Mine just sounds like that demonstrated on my video all the time.

I have been applying for jobs from as far and wide as Garden Island WA and the Woomera weapons testing range, so I might end up in an RF quiet location yet!

73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[VK4YOI]

Hi Rob

Has anyone installed CFL lighting in your immediate area lately? Perhaps one of those sponsered energy saving audit things where the cheepest equipment wins the quote but may not be all that green.

I think you mentioned living in an UG area I thought the chances of power line generated RF would be reduced, perhaps you have HV overhead(s) nearby (feeding the area)?

What about inverter type Air Con close by (on heat mode if its anything like here at the moment)?

Where do you stop? Can you corrolate it with a particular time of day or activity in the area?

On the good side, I understand the sale of plasma type TV's are on the way out, they will not meet the mandatory minimum energy ratings.

Good luck finding the noise, it will be interesting to find out what it is, please keep us informed.

Marty

[VK2HCC]

Sounds like what I hear on HF all the time also, I'm in inner city Melb. and here I was thinking that that was/is just HF and the way it is... I've never actually been mobile or setu anywhere else but my QTH, perhaps I should give it a go sometime to see what a quiet band should sound like.... but then again maybe not as that may ruin me for what I hear day to day.

Craig

[VK2XAX]

Hi Rob,

This has to be local to you. I'm only just down the road in South Penrith/York Road and I don't get any noise like that !

My noise floor on 160 is S5, s8 on 80 ( but it is daytime ), S5 on 40, s2 on 20m ( can here W? something on 14.166 right now, just on the noise

Do you have a portable HF radio and an attenuator that you can use to DF the source ?

If you're close to the Hospital you might be getting interesting noise from them !

regards

Tim

[VK2GOM]

Hi Tim,

I do get a lot of QRN from the hospital, especially on the higher bands - pagers etc. Drive past there and listen on 2m and everything gets wiped out with S9+ of hash.

However, I think my HF noise is predominantly powerline noise, and I think I know the pole in question. I am building a small DF'ing 'sniffer' antenna right now, to listen on UHF AM. I have the reflector and director on a PVC handheld boom - just got to mount the folded dipole on there somehow and I should be good to go. I have a home brew switched attenuator too which might be handy. Will make a video of approaching the suspect pole and monitoring noise on the handheld.

Wil then upload it to Youtube - that is if I don't get arrested first for suspiciously walking around with an antenna pointed at a powerpole, which must be terrorism in any police officer's book! I remember a friend getting arrested for talking on a 2m handheld outside a jewellers shop once, but that's another story!

73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[VK2GOM]

Did a couple more tests tonight after reading about PLI on the ARRL website.

Turned to AM on my HF rig, the noise on all bands is very evident and has the classic 'raspy' sound. I hooked my scope up, as they suggest, and managed to get a nice stable trigger on the audio.

Measuring the period between peaks = 20ms.... Hmm... 50Hz... Fancy that

Didn't manage to finish my RFI sniffing antenna today through trying to terminate the coax to thin aluminium rod. I will make a new folded dipole from brass strip or similar if I can get some. At least I can solder to that. I really need a small antenna, as I am not wandering around the streets waving an 8ele Yagi about. That is just asking for trouble!

73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[VK3FZ]

sounds like a class action
i have this 12 out of 24 hours
local qrm caused by sub standard imported crap
its time our WIA took a stand and stoped this when we as hams cause one little herring bone we get the wrath of god laid on us !!!!!
ps and the acma charge me for the service

[VK2CSW]

...I really need a small antenna, as I am not wandering around the streets waving an 8ele Yagi about. That is just asking for trouble!...

I don't know how long your eight element beam is, but assuming it is man-manageable then the solution you seek will cost about $10.

What you need is a flourescent green safety vest. Wear it while wandering around pointing the yagi at stuff. The average punter will assume you are from EA or whatever the local electricity supplier is. If you happen to have a ute or van, park it nearby.

Frankly, if you are going to do something that looks suspicious, then look like you should be doing it.

Other than that, get over the timidity, and just do it. If we skulk around like pariahs then people will believe we are doing something wrong. Life is too short to worry about what others think of our legal and certified hobbies. The local wallopers aren't really interested and by the time they get there you will have packed up and gone home. Even if they visit, there is no offence being committed and they are unlikely to do more than ask you what you were doing and log it.

[VK2GOM]

Hi Colin - You're right, life is too short, and progress has happened To spur me on, the noise suddenly got a lot worse tonight, badly affecting 2m.

So... I put on some dark covert ops clothing, and headed out at 11pm with my 8ele 70cm yagi and handheld tuned to 436.200 AM.

I quickly found the offending pole, which as it turns out is about 80m from my 2m Yagi and HF antenna. Can't miss it - the 70cm beam is sharp, and DF's right to some insulators/lightning arrestors up on the pole. I have noted the pole number, so will contact the electricity people first thing tomorrow. Mind you, this might be where the fun really starts... since the pole is also unfortunately home to a council-managed street lamp. The fact the noise is there when the lamp is off points to the power pole equipment.

The noise tonight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69EmYfbb040

73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[VK3ZYC]

Hi Rob,

With that level of interference and continuous solid buzz it must be serious.

You must report it as a Serious Fault to the electricity company "it will be a danger to their assets, it will be accompanied with much sparking and arcing and and a burning smell evident" even worse its possibly a "danger to public health and safety" people could get hurt if the wires fall down. It pays to build it a little.

Seriously usually its insulator, the old SEC here in vic had a batch of faulty insulators around for a while, the ones outside my place were some of them
on a dark night you could look up inside them and see them arcing.

Forgot to say in the earlier post to use spectran or spectrum lab s/ware to look at the audio and look for the 50 hz components.

good luck.
Jim VK3ZYC

[VK2GOM]

Hi Jim,

I simply can't get through to the right dept at the elctric company - Integral Engergy. I was given the number of the person to speak to at their switchboard, but for 2 days, there has been no answer. I will use some of the words you mention when (or if!) I ever get through. My principal line to take with them though is their power pole is causing interference to a licensed radio communications system.

I have used Spectrum Lab, and can see tramlines of noise peaks every 50Hz, and also on my oscilloscope measuring the AM audio I can see the noise peaks at the zero crossing points and each pair are 20msec apart, so definitely 50Hz.

When I stand under the pole, I can't really hear a buzz by ear, mind you - my high range hearing isn't so great thanks to being rhythm guitarist in a rock band for 5 years!

Tonight, I might try heading out again with my 70cm yagi to the pole, have a listen on the radio, then perhaps give the pole a kick and see if I can hear the noise received on the radio change any.

73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

PS. Just had a quick listen on 2m again, as it's cold outside - it seems whatever it is on the pole contracts, and the noise gets worse. From the shack, the 2m noise is now S9 all over the 2m band.

Latest video of the noise at the pole:

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wAq4t186lg][/youtube]

[VK4YOI]

Hi Rob

After a quick Google search, can this mob help?

http://www.ewon.com.au/

Perhaps your application may be based upon one of poor customer service or interference with your property by the entity. You may find once the right person has your attention it will be fixed, your problem sounds like it is combating the call centre staff who don’t have your type of complaint on their flow chart.

Good luck

Marty

[VK2GOM]

Hi Marty,

Many thanks for the info. URL noted!

The first line of defence customer service switchboard lady was quite bemused when I initially phoned that their pole could possiby cause interference... however, I did get the direct dial number for the guy in 'customer care' who deals with technical complaints. However, it's him that I can't get to answer the phone!

I guess there may be an innocent explanation - on holiday, ill etc. so I will keep trying for perhaps another week before I am forced to attack the issue from another angle.

Until then, no amateur radio from this address as the noise has just got too bad.

73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[VK2CSW]

Rob,

Are you in a delegated "bushfire prone zone"?

If so, kick up a stink. They are required to fix it, and after the Victorian royal commission they are a bit touchy ATM.

Even if you aren't in a prescribed zone but near one kick up a stink anyway.

Colin

[VK2GOM]

I finally got through to someone at Integral Energy, and told them all about the interference.

Their take was "How do I know it's interference?", so I told them. They asked what equipment did I use to find it, I told them it was a combination of home built and commercial direction finding equipment. They asked how long ago did I buy it, so I could see where this was going...

They told me they wouldn't listen to my complaint I had no valid data to conclusively prove it was their pole causing interference... even though of course I have absolutely 100% conclusive proof. Patronising woman on the customer care helpline obviously knows best, and I'm sure and is probably fully versed in radio DF techniques and waveform monitoring of any interference on her oscilloscope.

Icing on the cake is they tell me the interference is "not their problem", and that I have to go to AMCA instead to get it "investigated properly"

I told her this was going to go round in circles, so took her name and operator number for later reference.

Fair enough - I have just completed and emailed back to ACMA the request for investigation of interference to radiocommunications form, which will hopefully bring on the wrath of the Radio Inspector and see if they have any luck with this clueless and patronising Integral crowd.

Not mentioning callsigns, but I know others around here have been dealt the same treatment by Integral Energy.

I certianly don't regret dumping Integral Energy billing last month to an Indian door-to-door salesman and going to Origin instead for bill payment

On the downside, if this just goes in circles with ACMA and Integral pointing fingers at eachother, I still have S9+ interference on all bands I have here, so that's my amateur radio days over

73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[VK2HRX]

You need to simplify it for them. Stop trying to say they are causing RF interference and thus give them a point to argue/dismiss you with.

How about this:

"I was out walking the dog last night and could see sparks coming from a plastic thing up a pole that had wires wrapped around it. It was also going red at times. Is this normal? There was a number on the pole and my mate who is in the Rural Fire Service said I should ring you and give you the number."

Let us know when they fix it.

Compton
VK2HRX

[VK6DZ]

"I was out walking the dog last night and could see sparks coming from a plastic thing up a pole that had wires wrapped around it. It was also going red at times. Is this normal? There was a number on the pole and my mate who is in the Rural Fire Service said I should ring you and give you the number."

I tried this when we had a hot tap on the power line out the front of my house.

They just told me to stop looking through the bottom of my beer glass, two days later the 22kv power line was on the ground, melted through