Sporadic E: the lowdown on elevation angle

Non band-specific propagation & Solar Cycle discussion
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VK2ZRH
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Re: Sporadic E: the lowdown on elevation angle

Post by VK2ZRH »

Back on 4 Dec 2008 [8:55 am], I posted:
The theoretical gain of either (or any !) antenna will have nothing to do with it, rather the response at low ray path angles, which will be well down on the gain at the peak of the antenna's forward lobe.

The angle of the ray path is determined by simple spherical geometry: the height of the refraction (reflection) point and the ground distance between the two stations. At the greatest skip distances (ie. 2000+ km), the ray path angle is at two degrees or lower when the Es is at 100 km height.

I'll see if I can fish out a diagram of this from my paper on Sporadic E I gave at the 2007 GippsTech Conference and post it here.
Here is the diagram:
The blue curve shows the skip distance achieved versus elevation angle, for an Es layer at 100 km height. Note the low ray path angles for common Es skip distances. The red curve shows the "Obliquity Factor" applicable versus elevation angle - multiplying foEs on an ionogram taken at the path midpoint by the Obliquity Factor gives the path MUF. For foEs = 8.4 MHz, MUF = 50.4 MHz. For foEs = 24 MHz, MUF = 144 MHz. If Es height increases, MUF decreases; if Es height decreases, MUF increases [and it's non-linear].
The blue curve shows the skip distance achieved versus elevation angle, for an Es layer at 100 km height. Note the low ray path angles for common Es skip distances. The red curve shows the "Obliquity Factor" applicable versus elevation angle - multiplying foEs on an ionogram taken at the path midpoint by the Obliquity Factor gives the path MUF. For foEs = 8.4 MHz, MUF = 50.4 MHz. For foEs = 24 MHz, MUF = 144 MHz. If Es height increases, MUF decreases; if Es height decreases, MUF increases [and it's non-linear].
VK2XV

Re: Sporadic E: the lowdown on elevation angle

Post by VK2XV »

This makes interesting reading - practical results found with a switchable vertical stack on 50Mhz.

http://vk2sro.djirra.com/temp/6m/50MHZSTACK.pdf

Steve VK2ZTO
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Re: Sporadic E: the lowdown on elevation angle

Post by VK2ZRH »

An interesting read about David K1WHS's (and others') experiments.

The one certain result is that space diversity provides distinct improvement. That should be no surprise - especially in light of what I have to say, shortly.

The problem with David K1WHS's article, I find, is that there is no "benchmark" for the basis of comparison, nor are the local ground conditions set out. This is not to decry his not inconsiderable efforts.

Be that as it may, he's confused what most amateurs confuse: signal ray path arrival angles and antenna vertical plane responses do not really equate. Hence, I'm not surprised at his confusion about some of the observed results. The incoming signal EM field will be a complex mixture of strengths affected by constructive wave interference (signal strength augmentation) and destructive wave interference (signal strength reduction) at slightly differing ray path angles (considering the vertical plane alone, for the moment). This particularly applies to Es and TEP. How the ray paths interact with the antenna's vertical plane response/s will determine how you experience reception of the signal.

Does that now make it all clear? Or, at least, a little more clear?

73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH
VK2XV

Re: Sporadic E: the lowdown on elevation angle

Post by VK2XV »

Did a little homework as you suggested and found a study on the IPS site...

"Modelling and mapping Sporadic E using Backscatter Radar" by R.J. Norman(1), P.L. Dyson(1) and J.A. Bennett(2)

While I readily concede I don't fully understand the mathematics of the analysis given (nor the strength of will or indeed the capacity to learn...), the following piece of text caught my eye...(obviously a selective quote and the emphasis is mine...) :wink:

"Since we do not have the received angles of arrival of these ray paths, let us assume that the lowest detectable elevation of the antenna array is 3 degrees."

But this is obviously something way out of my depth and so I shall desist.

Suffice it to say as far as the practical case wrt to antenna heights for amateurs and the observation that a lower antenna can work better, I remain convinced that those observations by others have merit.

In other words, for me, as yet the FL hasn't sung in the Key of E.... :lol:

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Re: Sporadic E: the lowdown on elevation angle

Post by VK2OMD »

VK2ZTO wrote: Suffice it to say as far as the practical case wrt to antenna heights for amateurs and the observation that a lower antenna can work better, I remain convinced that those observations by others have merit.
Steve, you don't have to devalue the observations, incomplete as they may be, they could be explained for instance by path length. Roger's graph shows clearly that at shorter path lengths, higher elevation rays are involved.

Es works on 7MHz, probably the reason for patchy but astonishingly good short path propagation in recent weeks. Though some call out the end of the solar cycle as the cause, it is probably Es, and the geometry of Es paths to someone just 150km away is a VERY high path.

Roger's graph indicates that if you want to work 2000+km paths on Es, gain right down to almost 0° elevation is relevant.

Whilst we stare at modelled antenna patterns over horizontal ground, the type of ground affects the pattern, but if the ground is not level, then the whole model needs to be rotated by the ground slope... and it may be that for some locations, the major lobe of the antenna is extremely low, possibly negative. I think of other cases such as Norm Deitch's configuration at Port Kembla where the path to the USA was over water, and the antenna was on a tall tower close to a high cliff at the water's edge.

I think that the thing that emerges is that if you want to work the longest Es paths, antenna height is always an advantage to those longer paths because the antenna gain at the lowest ray angle(s) suits the very acute ray arrival at the most distance Es patches which increases MUF (so you will see an opening that other closer in stations do not). This, though a lower antenna might compare more favourably on a shorter path, especially in the presence of higher f0Es.

That is not to say you won't get QSOs on a lower antenna, you will, just the probability is you will get less on average over time. This highlights the folly of those who cite a QSLs as evidence than an antenna "works".

Statistically, you could try to explain that the reason why stations with bigger erections get more contacts is that they are serious and spend more time at it. That is likely to be a factor, but I think that size matters.

Owen

PS: speaking of solar cycle transition, about 80% of the days of the first half of this month have been spotless.
VK2XV

Re: Sporadic E: the lowdown on elevation angle

Post by VK2XV »

G'day Owen,

I must confess I am a little confused. The original post had this in it...

That “E-skip is often high angle . . .” (on VHF) is an erroneous, but widely held, belief.

What followed was a long discussion about take-off angles which I believed was a general discussion that take-off angles are confined to low angles.

From the graph I see the angle from here to Melbourne is 12 degrees, Adelaide about 8 degrees. These angles would be well served by an antenna at 7m and 10m respectively - hardly high antennas by the standards here.

I started off not being happy with the boring :wink: statement that "E-skip is often high-angle....", but, if anything, I am much less critical of that statement now after this long discussion.

Cheers

Steve VK2ZTO
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Re: Sporadic E: the lowdown on elevation angle

Post by vk3six »

The notion that E layer comes in from a high angle has been promolgated, misinformation notwithstanding for as long as I have been active on the 6M band.
Also I might qualify that I am an operator (appliance or otherwise) my specialty is working long distance 6M DX locations.
My skills are picking callsigns in CW out of the noise using weak signal work at -137 to -141 dbM.

Over the years I have noticed that the yagis OF the type in common use have not set the world on fire and I drifted into the use of a long boom yagi in 1989 after a serious miss with Europe trying to communicate with an 8 element LPY type yagi,
that EVERYBODY ENDORSED like sliced bread.

THEY WERE WRONG.

I for one would not go back below a 7 or maybe 8 el yagi open the 6M band because I do not want to lose out on the long distance dx or have to wait in the Q for conditions to improve.
But I have noticed that a well placed elevated long boom yagi works well at long distances 3000-4500 km Es and 7000-10000 F/TE
It does not work well on local contacts.
You can call the reason whatever you like, produce plethora of evidence, but reality is it took SINGLE LONG YAGIS to break the BARRIERS.

And also the ability to Look outside the BOX which at this stage is a containment field within 4000-5000 k from Australia.




T31 or 3D2 unsure missed @ 4600km
DU7 worked 5600km
A35 worked 4600km
DARWIN and P29 Three way 3000 km.
ALL LONG YAGI

LAST SUMMER
http://vk3six.com/logs.htm


Watch this space.
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Re: Sporadic E: the lowdown on elevation angle

Post by VK3AUU »

"The incoming signal EM field will be a complex mixture of strengths affected by constructive wave interference (signal strength augmentation) and destructive wave interference (signal strength reduction) at slightly differing ray path angles (considering the vertical plane alone, for the moment..."

A quote from one of Roger's earlier posts.

With the advent of programs such as EZNEC it is easy to model what sort of pattern in the vertical plane your antenna might have, either in free space or with ground effect. As it turns out, in the practical case, you will get a combination of both, depending on what sort of foreground you have. If you live in a relatively quiet location and can observe an increase in noise from the rising or setting sun, it is instructive to fire up WSJT version 4 in the Measure mode and see what actually happens up to around 20 degrees or so with the antenna aimed at the horizon.

On 6 meters to the east, where I have a row of trees along the road about 140 metres from the antenna, I have a sustantial lobe right down on the horizon, then a null and a peak at around 8 degrees. That is with the 15 element yagi at around 10 metres. This agrees fairly well with the EZNEC model, the lobe near the ground is the free space one and the 8 degree one is with ground effect.

On 2 metres, to the west, a similar observation occurs. Peaks occur at odd multiples of 3 degrees up to the fourth one. The second peak is about 2 db better than the first, due no doubt to some attenuation from vegetation out to about a kilometre. In some directions there appears to be a focussing effect. The nulls between the peaks are estimated to be about 20 db down. If you are fortunate in having a good clean flat take-of, you should expect to get about 5 db additional gain over the free space gain of your antenna. For instance, during my first foray into EME, with a single 19 element yagi I could not detect echos with 1500 watts out, pointing the antenna up into the sky. However, down on the horizon, I could still detect echos down to 500 watts. LZ2US in his report said that it sounded as though I was running 8 yagis. With the 4 yagi array, I could easily hear SSB echos on the horizon with 2500 watts out.

I would like someone with a substantial array on 432 to see what they observe, but at a height of say 12 metres, peaks will be at odd multiples of only 1 degree and ground clutter will have a much greater effect.

David
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Re: Sporadic E: the lowdown on elevation angle

Post by VK2ZRH »

The EM field from Es layer (ionospheric) reflection is not aware, and could care less about, the radiation pattern of your antenna.

Bill Blogs 1km distant from you, David, may only have a 3-element scratch-built Yagi at 8m height, but there will be times when HE hears the Es DX and you DON'T, simply because the complex EM field from the Es reflection favours Bloggs' situation over yours, at the particular time. This phenomena confounds many 6m operators - indeed, infuriates some (understandably). :roll:

Mind you, the opposite can be true, too. Which will be generally put down to your superior antenna installation (and why not !). :lol:

"Such is life", said an infamous person, once upon a time.

73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH
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