Claytons CW

[VK3ZAZ]

Just listening to yet another Roger Beep on HF and wonder why this CB habit has gravitated down onto the ham bands.
I guess some people thinking its smart NOT


wasn't talking about weak signal trans tasman was talking about 40m db over S9 field day 2M stations ..
The Roger beep belongs on CB radio..

I wont be responding to anyone who uses it.

[ZL3RC]

Really I think you need to get a life…Why.
Im a phone operator but I use CW at times too.
I have a K generator and I use it with discretion I have also whistled a K at the end of an over, why, to indicate to the other station that my transmission has stopped.
This is most helpful if the signals are very weak and detecting when the other station has stopped talking.

The thing that I'm really disappointed with is your attitude toward people that don't or maybe can't, I put myself in this category, use CW.

You need to take a long look at the way you are talking to your fellow Ham's and think again as this is only a hobby and if you can't stand it move on.

I look forward to working you sometime on whatever mode you chose but in the meantime I would really appreciate it if you keep this sort of comment to yourself.
It shows a lack of maturity and understanding.

Roger.

[VK3ZAZ]

Its not about using CW its about the roger beep

being used when signals are 40/9 and it was several not individuals for ten hours..

[VK8MS]

Sorry
Again your wrong (not from CB), the end of over tone beep is used widely in commercial VHF, UHF & especially HF to indicate the end of transmission/over as is used on HF RFDS / Land mobile it did not come from citizen band radio, many ham radios now come with this built in as well.
As much it may be annoying to you (lets face it what isn't) just qsy or turn off like most of us do.
I agree no one can seem to be at your level OM...in the gutter that is (hi)

[ZL3JT]

Yeah, but I send a "roger beep K" every time I stop transmitting... It's a bit hard to say "Over rover" without a microphone...

[VK5ZLR]

.
Nup, don't agree with ZAZ.

Reckon that particulalry when the band gets a bit ordinary the roger beep is a handy thing on HF.

I've incorporated it into my IC706 and venerable 7727.

[ZL3MF]

Back some years ago I had a "K" generator built into my Icom desk Mic (used an IC-551D) and it works a treat the 'K" at the end of my transmissions stood out like dogs balls.
Personally I can see nothing wrong with a "roger beep" or 'K" generator on phone transmissions particularly on weak signals.
I also don't get why some hams seem to have some form of antiness regarding CB radio?? I personally know many hams who used CB as a stepping stone to further their knowledge in radio. Yes there where lots of drop kicks on CB but like any other group there are plenty of drop kicks on Amateur radio too.

My 2c

Mike ZL3MF

[VK2XTC]

I was about to build one but not sure if I should after reading these posts.

I don't want to be seen as one of "those" operators......

I was going to build one based on my experience from the 2016 Summer Field day. I could hear a VK3 calling CQ on 2M , or more correctly I could hear the "K" Generator first.
It was a very weak signal but I could hear the "K" and so I listened for the signal to rise to the point I could make out it was a VK3. It was about a 700km path.
They where making 2M contacts into VK2.

I couldn't get enough signal to make contact , but it was enough to get me interested for a couple more hours listening to noise .....


Brian

VK2XTC

[ZL3OZ]

I first came across them in the late 70s and 80s.Seemed pretentious at first but sure showed a weak sig completed an over.
I came across the VK3 crowd on VK Field day where I took an active part calling as many as possible to encourage them on 6. It sure stood out when the signal was right in the noise and if my rig had one built in I would use it.
Yep its not needed at 59++ but they were weak to me.

As for griping, why did so many experienced CW ops, some sending so fast me no savvy, decided to QSO on 50.11 today when some VK6 about??. Why not use .10 like usual. It stopped me calling when something interesting might have happened as in my book steam gives way to sail so I dont like calling over CW. I tried moving to 50.2 to call but no one home there. In the end I just switched off, in my book its better to help and encourage each other than try to out do each other. Now wheres that ladder...this high horse gettin too tall now Im older.

Ken
ZL3OZ

[ZL1SWW]

Hi,
Yes they are in use on weak signal VHF / UHF /SHF DX.

When signals fade, often the only thing that stands out is the K or T tone. Depending on how many you hear, you can almost tell who it might be as due to the proliferation of types in use with different micros, different tones used, you can almost guess who it is.

There are many VKs and ZLs using them.

I have them in my 706 for VHF work and also in my FT-817 that has a switchable carrier / CW ident and a K tone for each over. being able to put a carrier up, in my case, a warbler tone allows a recipient at the other end to discern it from random carriers that are ever so present on the SHF bands. (Our Sky Tower in Auckland is a case in point whereby there are carriers coming from that site which I can hear from 90 km away and often the Sky Tower is down the bore sight of my dishes.) There are too many variables in working SHF (Being on frequency, Pointing the right way and being able to hear someone's carrier at the other end while lining up dishes etc). Having a distinctive tone can make the job easier.

There are plenty of Picaxe project out there and it's reasonably easy to knock one up from there.

Cheers,

Simon
ZL1SWW

[VK4WDM]

I must say I agree with Steve VK3ZAZ.

I find the use of "the beep" very annoying when it is used on every over when stations are reading each other loud and clear. Its a bit like the guys who repeat all their info when they are 599. On the other hand, it is very helpful when signals are marginal to avoid doubling.

So my take home message message is "use when required, not all the time."

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[ZL1TPH]

Likewise - would have to agree with Steve VK3ZAZ

I've used them before on 144 and 1296 to VK.

Never would I use one on HF.

I wont use one back on 144 but I'm tempted to place one back on 1296 with a recent 23 cm rig upgrade.

1296 across the pond to VK can be bloody weak along with sharp QSB within seconds and so adds value there.

Cheers, Steve

[VK2AVR]

My official position is I don't care.

I've got FAR more interesting things to think about than whether somebody beeps or not when they're done talking.

[VK5PJ]

okay, so lets trace the origins of the over beep, as far as I know it originates with the NASA space program, have a listen to any of the historical ground to space coms and you will find an OVER beep on each transmission. If it was not an effective tool then why did NASA use it for over a decade?

[VK2AOH]

Recollect a 4WD club trip in the Simpson's Desert I did a few years ago, quite a convoy of vehicles and all used UHF CB's. One vehicle had a handheld which had roger beep as a default.

This thing drove everyone nuts, beeping away for hours on end.

Luckily the people with the h/held had the manual and I was able to work out how to switch the roger beep off.

There may be cases on the higher bands when its handy perhaps although would think it a good idea to turn off the beep when in a good signal area.

I would never use roger beep on H.F

[VK3JUG]

I use HF commercialy at work and find the Roger beep very handy in poor signal conditions often heard when voice is gone altogether but even when signals are good it's at such a level not to be annoying. Most Amatuer repeater controllers feature a Roger beep to indicate the end of transmission, stops people holding the repeater open till it times out. Mind you junky UHF CB handhelds that send multiple tones at end of transmission i could easily modify with a large hammer....

[VK3BSF]

"NASA's beep - formally known as Quindar tones, after the manufacturer of NASA's telemetry equipment - spelt freedom, and by the time Mission Control told Tranquility Base that they were patching through a special message from Richard Nixon, the roger beep had seared itself across the synapses of a generation, burned in with the white heat of technology. Laika had escaped the corrupt regime that sent her to die; but her bark lived on.

NASA used the Quindar tones as audio 'control codes' for their transmitters. The beeps are not the exclusive property of NASA, though; they are standard circuits in many transceivers and CB sets, and are commonly used in situations where the conversation is likely to be transcribed later, or in areas of poor reception, or just to make a CB radio sound 'official'. It saves having to say 'roger' all the time, as well, and can also irritate people if used excessively.

Being the biggest and most painstaking kids on the block NASA used two beeps; the first denoted the beginning of transmission and ran at a frequency of 2525hz, whilst the second came at the end and was 2475hz. Both lasted for 250 thousands of a second."

[VK3ZAZ]

ROGER BEEP PAYBACK


Again divergancy prevails we are talking about FIELD DAY and 40/9 signals

Next year the non beepers here are buying headsets with turn on turn off facility and everyone who beeps us will get beeped back
Eventually you will all get the message.
and turn the appendages OFF

[ZL3MF]

ROGER BEEP PAYBACK


Again divergancy prevails we are talking about FIELD DAY and 40/9 signals

Next year the non beepers here are buying headsets with turn on turn off facility and everyone who beeps us will get beeped back
Eventually you will all get the message.
and turn the appendages OFF

Steve I find this response quiet strange and don't quiet get where you are coming from....this sort of behavior takes me back to the disgraceful 28.885 days amongst certain VK's and thought we had all matured and grown up since then.....
You are referring to a 40/9 signal...at your place? that does not mean it is 40/9 500, 600, 1000km away.
Is this what amateur radio has come to no wonder we are finding it hard to get the youth involved in this hobby.
As for me I like amateur radio for the challenge, comradery, trying new modes and playing with electronics and getting the youth involved mainly though scouting.
Yes like any other group not everyone gets on with each other but most of us find a way to get around this by compromising.
Steve you may have strong feelings about this subject but why force your beliefs onto others who do use the roger beep, what they are doing is quiet legit and legal.
Or is this more about you not liking operators who don't have CW skills??

73's

Mike

[VK2AAH]

I recently had a meeting with a visiting American exec about the future of Pocsag paging. To my amazement he suggested 2 tone... it works, never fails, and has been doing so since many here were in nappies. But do you call that progress?

In an era where we can go and buy a superb set of noise canceling headphones from Heil there are hams still generating ridiculous alert tones to indicate end of transmission. I don't care where it came from, whether it was NASA or CB is not the point- the fact that it was 40+ years ago that should be a concern. In an era when you can get digital modes to work down into the noise shouldn't we be looking at something more 21st century, like a milliseconds long reverse tone-burst that can be filtered at the other end?


Richard
VK2AAH