Up 5?

[VK2CSW]

Greetings Radio Guru's,

I know that I should knows this, but I don't. (Or at least my feeble mind doesn't let me recall).

Every so often there will be a message on the logger that says something like:

3D2AG/P on 14.255.0 SSB 59 > QF22MB 0° up 5 Rotuma Island

What does "up 5" mean?

Thanks

[VK5PJ]

Colin,
UP 5 is meant to signify where the DX station is listening, so if I was dx (yeah right) I could call on 50.210 then say listening "Up 5" so my receiver is on 50.215 or there about looking for calls.

Regards,

[VK2CSW]

Thanks Peter.

Another mystery (for me at least) solved!

[VK3GYH]

Hi Colin,

At least you asked the question!

It is amazing how many stations simply don't look at the cluster reports and/or listen to the DX station to check whether they are working split or not.

One other one to keep in mind, sometimes you will get a DX station that will say, for example, "listening 5-10 up". In this case you can find a (clear) frequency 5-10 kHz up from their transmitting frequency to use in order to attempt to contact them. At their end they will be looking for signals within that envelope.

[VK3ZAZ]

Thanks Peter.

Another mystery (for me at least) solved!

Now we need to solve the mystery when the dxp says ÜP FIVE"
The nerds TX on his frequency
Then the RADIO POLEECE come on and say
HE''S LISTENING UP UP.

QED

[VK5HP]

What's the point of running a split ?

I could never really see the point in it

[VK4TI]

It can help and once a pattern established gets much quicker remembering the rx is swung through an arc on tight filters

[VK7XX]

What's the point of running a split ?

I could never really see the point in it

It is supposed to mean that you will be able to hear him more clearly than if everyone was on the one frequency. (Note the "supposed to")

John
VK7XX

[VK3ZAZ]

What's the point of running a split ?

I could never really see the point in it

You would rather call on the pileup of 1000 stations and hope to hear your callsign come back?
Have you ever heard anyone not work split and seen what happens?
TOTAL CHAOS.
And not until the last guy gives his call can the dxpedition give the report.

[VK2CSW]

So that begs the question, how does it make it any less of a pile up if most of the "1000 stations" tune up 5 and let fly?

Seems a little illogical to me.

[VK3QI]

Colin,

You are assuming that the DX station is hearing all the 1000's of stations, up 5, at the same level. Usually that is not the case - some calling stations are louder and /or more recognisable to the operator.

Consequently, when the operator replies to one of the 1000's calling, provided his frequency is clear (as Steve says, no policemen etc. etc.), all of the 1000's can hear the response and standby.

Over 40 years or so, the technique has shown itself to be a successful method of working large numbers of stations in the shortest possible time.

Extending the up 5 to up 5 to 20 or other variations, can sometimes assist, but often at the expense of creating too much other interference for other operators on the band.

Happy Christmas

Peter VK3QI

[VK3HJ]

Even VK can attract pileups.

I was operating VI3ANZAC last week, and for the most part I preferred to operate simplex, or listen for callers on my frequency, but when the number of callers became too great (my judgement call) I had to ask the callers to call up 1 kHz or so above my transmit frequency. This was both so I could spread the callers, and so the callers could hear me without other callers blocking me out. At times my signal and callers occupied up to about 3 kHz, and I did my best to keep the pileup from spreading over other QSO up the band. That's where an SDR or spectrum display helps.

There are some operators who insist that split operating is illegal, unethical or wrong, but as Peter mentioned, split operation more quickly and efficiently logs the callers, and has been used effectively for many decades. Of course it is important the DX station clearly indicates where he is listening by regular instruction, and for both DX and callers to be familiar with operating their transceiver in split mode.

And I'm sure some callers just see the cluster network DX spot and call regardless of whether they can hear it!

73 and Merry Christmas,
Luke VK3HJ

[VK3ZAZ]

So that begs the question, how does it make it any less of a pile up if most of the "1000 stations" tune up 5 and let fly?

Seems a little illogical to me.

The bigger the expedition the bigger the pile ups so you pick them off
the UP 5 is really 5 to 15 and you pick people off one at a time 5 per minute 300 per hour
On cw its about 2-5 per minute 300 per hour
hour after hour after hour NERDS LIDS DUPES QRM QRN
Without split a dxpedition would be doomed to fail and low count.

And remember a single op on CW has to send with right hand and log on PC with left hand simultaneously 3-5 per minute depending on if call is 1x2 2x2 2x3 copy that call in one hit log it and move on
And I mean with a real key not keyboard
Try a contest for starters before you begin to criticise DXpeditioners and see how you fare.
Speaking now as a dxpeditioner VK2ATZ 1979 VK9XT 1980 82 2003, VK9YT CW 1982 YJ8OT 1979 and1980 H44OT VK9LE 2 ops
2c

[VK2CY]

G'day Stephen,
Had to post when I saw the term LID. As another morse man the concept of up 5 is simple.
The DXpeditioner calls on his "calling frequency" and listens on his "working freq".
The calling frequency is then clear for him to call again. Experienced operators on CW would offset the UP 5 slightly to be in the clear and get the contact.
In commercial CW operation UP is used instead of QSY to save a character!
Chris

[VK4TS]

You need to have been on the receiving end to appreciate. But essentially they can hear you easier as you are in the clear and you don't just listen to a precise 5 up for example

[VK4WDM]

As small station trying to work Dx peditions, I know from experience that the easiest DX stations to work are the ones that are listening say "5 to 10 up" rather than just a single frequency which will be loaded with stations. I tune that segment looking for a VK station calling the DX and wait to see if he is successful. I will then stay on that frequency and call when I hear the DX say QRZ? You obviously need to keep trying until the DX tunes that frequency again.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK3ZAZ]

As small station trying to work Dx peditions, I know from experience that the easiest DX stations to work are the ones that are listening say "5 to 10 up" rather than just a single frequency which will be loaded with stations. I tune that segment looking for a VK station calling the DX and wait to see if he is successful. I will then stay on that frequency and call when I hear the DX say QRZ? You obviously need to keep trying until the DX tunes that frequency again.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

As a dxpeditioner I never took second qso on same frequencies cos the little elves have a feedback network that spots who you just worked
and the masses call there immediately if not sooner.
It doesnt work, the the dxer has all antenna of the world pointed at him and stops out 1KW 2KW 5KW all aimed at the poor guy.
Controlling the frequency is essential or the big guns will run right over the top of you,
I think of the VK0 guy several years back who got so frustrated he pulled the plug when they did that to him.
How inconvenient it is, for some it seems, trying to make sense on why expeditions do what they do and I might add
some in the past suffering some unfair criticism as to why they didn't point beam this way go on that band whatever..

[VK4WDM]

As a dxpeditioner I never took second qso on same frequencies

Quite right, most don't. I just sit and wait until the DX rolls back to that frequency - a bit of listening will tell how long they are taking to cover the segment. I have 228 DXCC never using more than 100w with simple antennas, so it does work for me

I have utmost respect for the guy at the other end and get a bit peed off when I hear other hams bagging them for what ever reason. DXpeditions do an awesome job!

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK6ZGO]

If you are using a "vintage" rig with only one VFO,you are pretty much out of luck,as the "clarifier" doesn't reach that sort of split.
Of course,you can use a second receiver,but that adds complications in both antenna switching & operation..

I'm not that keen on "DX",so I just listen for a while,& when they say "5 up",I tune away & find a "Simplex" contact somewhere else.

[VK4WDM]

With the number of stations chasing rare dx these days it is just not possible for dxpeditions or rare stations to run simplex all the time but a lot of DXpeditions do run simplex towards the end of their operations to cater for ops who don't have split capacity. Times and bands are usually posted on their website or can be obtained from the "pilot stations."

73

Wayne VK4WDM