Have you recently tried becoming a WIA Exams Assessor?

[VK2ZRH]

I am surprised that it does not already have a committee looking into this now . . .

The WIA does. It's called "the Board".

There's a lot more behind setting up an online exam system than paying out some sheckels for Moodle (or whatever), which most casual commentators conveniently don't consider - the 'behind the scenes' business systems and protocols, for one. From the outset, it will all depend on satisfying the requirements of the ACMA, and its requirements are, to an extent, dictated by the ATO and Treasury (the Radiocommunications Act is linked to tax acts, for example). But this is a chick-and-egg dilemma. Without a demonstrable "model" online exam system, the ACMA has a problem defining requirements; without some requirements from the ACMA to work from, the WIA has a difficulty in setting up a "model" online exam system.

Work has progressed on establishing suitable business systems and protocols behind moving to an online exam system - I recommend you do some homework on the WIA website; you could start here: http://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2 ... 202014.pdf

This thread has now progressed way off-course , time to start another thread.

[VK4WDM]

Roger

Amen! (or Aanygender)

VK4WDM

[VK4TI]

Certainly in my experience online training is an excellent medium and the scoping and development wont pose a problem , there are plenty of similarities to current training provided through RTO online dealing with electronics which would stand acma scrutiny , so with the talent contained in the ham community instigating this should be reasonably simple . However I see no rush to go full examination online as there are questions about who will supervise so for now paper will suffice imho , normally one can find an hour or two and a suitable person to run that examination but many who do offer their service in the general community won’t have the required computer experience to run an online test ?. I am not suggesting anything nasty but making the whole thing manageable and without question is not a five minute option if history is to be believed
Lets do it in small leaps and make the assist first step as mentioned a moodle unit with question options and links to training material is for now an interesting option , being run with minimum expense and offering exposure to the medium .
Make haste slowly

[VK4WDM]

making the whole thing manageable and without question is not a five minute option if history is to be believed

Absolutely correct Barry but lets make a start

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK2MUS]

Certainly in my experience online training is an excellent medium and the scoping and development wont pose a problem , there are plenty of similarities to current training provided through RTO online dealing with electronics which would stand acma scrutiny , so with the talent contained in the ham community instigating this should be reasonably simple . However I see no rush to go full examination online as there are questions about who will supervise so for now paper will suffice imho , normally one can find an hour or two and a suitable person to run that examination but many who do offer their service in the general community won’t have the required computer experience to run an online test ?. I am not suggesting anything nasty but making the whole thing manageable and without question is not a five minute option if history is to be believed
Lets do it in small leaps and make the assist first step as mentioned a moodle unit with question options and links to training material is for now an interesting option , being run with minimum expense and offering exposure to the medium .
Make haste slowly

I do not see assessment via online medium requiring an assessor to be present during the exam - that would defeat the reason for going online all that would be needed is a JP to oversee the exam and give evidence that it is the person that asked for the assessment and that that person actually did the exam. I see no reason why any one need be present at the server to oversee the exam. The server should be secured which the WIA would already have. The exams do not change same questions same answers , they are already in multi choice layout so moving them to say Mondle ( I quote Moodle simply as an example there are a number of open source packages available) is straight forward The ACMA may have pro0blems in that the questions could be hacked - very unlikely with a secure server as to running an online test you don't run an online test it runs itself you do need a JP who can one finger type to enter his name and number into the computer form and the same staff back in the office to process the finished exam - There is no variation in the exam process across applicants that is the beauty of an online system.

Your suggestion re training material is a good suggestion - setup a couple of dummy Foundation exams they are already available on the net ie http://www.radioactivities.sa.scouts.co ... l_test.asp

Pretty simply to put that up on Moodle -- mind you over 1300 organizations use Moodle - High schools, Universities Tafe, Gov etc etc



I have been in IT and Computers both in commercial operations and University lecturing since the early 70's - I have heard just about every reason why one should not computerize basically very few of them have any validity

[VK4TI]

Mus you missunderstood the meaning of a suitable person , I have done and applied a fair amount of online training and the final was always supervised by a suitable person ( that being a community member like a chemist police officer jp etc)and doesnt need an electronically skilled person at all , as for getting the final exam on the net it will happen but don't be expecting that result anytime soon . Certainly the training is easily appled as evidenced by some who offer it already , there are some things online fails to provide well but for the basic ham info it will offer a path even to thise in the far distant corners of Au as honestly whats required is taught every day at other institutions with good success using various forms on computer based teaching .
But of course the wheels will move to slowly for some .

[VK2XSO]

Can you explain how the exam system is "corrupt"?

That is a serious allegation to throw about.

Yes corrupt. Not in a legal term, just morally corrupt.
I am of course focused on the practical exam. Which was not a requirement until 2005.
So why introduce it? And charge $75 for it.
I've asked the question before. What does the practical exam achieve?

Cause a problem and then charge to fix it. That's corruption even when it isn't criminal.

And why haven't all of you guys who held a licence prior to 2005 been made to update, pay your $75 and validate your practical knowledge?

"Oh, you've been on air all the time?" How do we validate your prior experience? You could have held a licence all this time and never been on air.
If you do the practical exam, then your qualification will be up to date.
We could always charge you some higher fee to recognise your qualifications so that you'd just rather pay the exam price.
Sound familiar? That process is morally corrupt too.

We know why that doesn't happen.

[VK4DU]

Sigh....

There is no corruption taking place, moral or otherwise.

The prac exam is a requirement of the FL. It is part of the overall assessment regime for the FL, as required by the ACMA.

You do not seem to understand that the WIA is contracted by the ACMA to manage the exam system, in accordance with requirements as determined by ACMA.

If you have a complaint, may I most respectfully suggest that you take it to the ACMA......

[VK2ZRH]

Trash . . .

What he said (but he beat me to it).

[VK2MUS]

The prac exam is a requirement of the FL. It is part of the overall assessment regime for the FL, as required by the ACMA.

actually the prac exam is a requirement of all license grades - those that update from foundation have already done their prac but those that enter directly into Standard or Advanced have to complete the prac exam
John

[VK5PL]

Someone upgrading from Standard to Advanced also has to do the practical assessment even if they have been licenced for 35 years like myself.
I passed the advanced exam now have to sit the practical.

[VK4DU]

Surely you would get an exemption for that....??

[VK2CSW]

Surely you would get an exemption for that....??

What?

And have them lose the exam fee?

Crickey, has the world gone topsy turvey???

[VK2AAH]

What moral is being corrupted?

Greed? The WIA is bound by the ACMA to only charge what it costs so that knocks out greed.

Discrimination against new applicants? Rules get changed by government all the time. I only was on P plates for a year. I suppose changing that rule was corrupt too?

Stupid, stupid, stupid. Rules change over time, that is progress. But I suppose an anarchist hates rules, even logical ones. Face it, the hobby will always be prevented from achieving as much as it could not by the unity that the WIA brings, but by the childish arrogance of a vocal few who genuinely believe that the majority are dumb bast@rds who lack their brilliance. Delusional...


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK4WDM]

Someone upgrading from Standard to Advanced also has to do the practical assessment even if they have been licensed for 35 years like myself.
I passed the advanced exam now have to sit the practical.

Is this actually an ACMA requirement? If so, the WIA has got no choice but to obey, it has nothing to do with the WIA "getting the exam fee."

If this is the case then it is quite clearly an absolute over-kill on behalf of the ACMA.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK2AAH]

Wayne can you explain why you believe the practical is an "overkill"?

In the "old days" setting up practical exams would have been... impractical. When I did mine at Macquarie Uni with about 20 or 30 others under the control of the SMA or DOCs (can't remember which it was!) staff there was no way that practical testing could have been conducted. I suppose if it was done at North Sydney tech maybe... What is so fundamentally wrong with evolving testing to meet current needs? It is no different to other licenses- like drivers licenses. Tests change with time- and aren't the sub 50 non-troglodytes here always screaming about the need for change? Well here is change in action and yet it is branded "morally corrupt" by an enlightened one...

Cheers


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK4WDM]

Hi Richard

My remark only refers to asking a ham with many years of operating his equipment to do a practical test whilst up-grading from an advanced to a standard license. I fully support the practical test for the foundation license.

In your opinion, does that mean I should have done a practical test when I introduced digital modes to my shack to make sure I set them up right so not to cause splatter? Should I have done a practical test on the use of my new transceiver? Should those who learn Morse code have to sit a practical test before going on the air?

After many years of being ham I would expect the majority of us would have the experience to sort most things out ourselves, and most of all, the brains to ask for help if we need it.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK2AAH]

Hi Wayne,

Everyone needs to comply with the rules in force at the time they sit for a test. We don't require people to resit tests to prove ongoing competence so why should any of us who are licensed have to do the practical? Surely most of us would be able to demonstrate prior "learning" to justify an exemption any way. As for digital that is just a new modulation technique that our skills should be able to adjust to- again it is just a modulation type so why would re-examination be necessary? Did you sit for a specific exam for slow scan TV? I'm pretty sure I never even had to answer a question on it...

Cheers


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK4WDM]

Hi Richard

We don't require people to resit tests to prove ongoing competence so why should any of us who are licensed have to do the practical? Surely most of us would be able to demonstrate prior "learning" to justify an exemption any way.

I agree that that should be the case, but a previous poster who is up-grading says he has to do a practical exam. So there seems to be some mixed messages about what the requirements really are.

Of course I don't believe that new rigs, modes etc require a practical test, but to my mind that is no less silly than asking a ham who has been on the are for 35 years to take a practical test as part of a license upgrade.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK4EA]

I question whether existing license holders could pass the theory, regs or theory, based on what i hear on the bands, perhaps it's time to retest everybody?

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