Have you recently tried becoming a WIA Exams Assessor?

[VK3ALB]

It does not say more about the assessors - it does say more about those designing the exam and requirements that assessors in these more rural and remote situations are not given the equipment to full fill the requirements. IN a remote or rural situation where the assessor even comes to the applicants home there may be no radio gear already purchased that can be used for a prac exam . The prac exam procedure assumes that there will always be the required radio equipment available and this of course cannot be assumed - so just what does an assessor do in this situation.

What does he do? He makes it happen. The directive is quite clear,

"Assessors must have the equipment indicated in the exam instructions and QSO's conducted during the exam are on air using live equipment.".

It is up to the assessor to make the equipment available. If he can't do it himself he should arrange it so that someone with a radio is available to assist or the gear is made available. He should have known so and done better by you.

I think you are in an unenviable position, I've been there with a wife and two kids in tears because of some procedural non-compliance regarding their F call exam. I wish you better luck than we had.

[VK2MUS]

If the WIA or the ACMA does not have the equipment bank for remote prac tests then I don't think the assessor is obliged to haul around radios and antennas - the best they could do is some hand held 2m units with a small whip antenna but then in the rural and or remote areas who are they going to qso with at that power. The prac test is ideal in say the UK but not totally feasible in Aus. The assessors are good - they outlay a lot of money and time and I appreciate that but really in this day and age online testing should be the norm.

[VK2XSO]

If you have a 'commercial' organization doing the exam and assessment it is going to cost way more.

[blink]BULLSHIT !![/blink]
When has switching from a monopoly to an open market resulted in higher prices, and longer service times?

My AOCP before the WIA ran the show cost me $10 for regs and $10 for theory and I was on air 20 hours later.
My MOCP cost $59 and I was on air 5 days later. (I was a bit slack).
My Airband licence was free and I was on air the next day.

If I were to do my AOCP again tomorrow, it would cost me $235 to walk in the door and nobody would be surprised if I wasn't on air three weeks later.

For example is you wish to take a Cisco CCNA ( the base level certification) exam it is completely online ,less that 60 min and it costs around $300.

Monopoly! How much do you think they would charge for this if Cisco suddenly had a competitor in the router market offering the exact same course under their own brand name?

[If prices went up] So what you're saying is that an open market would actually benefit the WIA because they would be able to charge more for the service because nobody could do it better.
The free market would show noisy ratbags like me that I'm completely wrong.

Well bring it on because that a bet I'd like to make !

The ACMA is moving away from direct involvement in almost all of it's functions.

Exactly, which is why I would imply simple piracy. They're not coming after you.

The year is 2020. The ACMA's only task is to report spectrum abnormalities to the ATO.
You get a letter in the mail from the ATO. "I has come to our attention that you have been operating on the amateur bands without a licence." To rectify this problem please pay the (tax) licence fee of $80 to the ATO within 7 days and we won't send the sheriff around to recover the debt.

or
The letter from the ATO reads, "You have been identified as a source of EMR pollution. The tax for spectrum pollution of this nature is $80. Please pay up within 7 days or we send the EPA around to remove a fingernail."

[VK5GR]

Oh boy - talk about dragging a thread off topic people!

The thread I started is about how to become an assessor. How about sticking to that question ONLY please?

[VK4EA]

Grant, did you get in touch with Fred?

Sent from my SM-T805 using Tapatalk

[VK4TJ]

VK2MUS - Actually, assessors *ARE* obliged to pack around a load of gear. Those of us that did assessor training in a classroom setting had that made abundantly clear. The creators of the program probably had a well-heeled club in mind. Once again, what works in the larger centres doesn't work quite so well in the bush. My standard "prac kit" includes 3 complete HF stations complete with antennas and 2 complete VHF/UHF stations, complete with antennas. Why so many?

1 for the candidate to talk on
1 for the candidate to hook up
1 for my LF'er to hide around the corner and QSO the candidate on.

Yep, that is right - we don't rely on chance for a QSO. Anybody who has conducted exams knows that you are flat out getting the candidates through the process in an afternoon - no delays can be tolerated, like tuning the bands in hope of a QSO. Yes, HF rigs #1 & 2 *could* be the same rig, but there is value in having the chat rig pre-tuned, on the right frequency (more or less - evil grin), not on FM for a wattmeter/SWR demo etc.

Ditto VHF/UHF. Sort out your desense issues with the LF'er beforehand - nothing worse than blowing a prac for purely technical issues. Make sure "prac time" does not coincide with a local net on the repeater, as there is no wiggle room - the scenario insists on a repeater QSO or 3.

73
John VK4TJ

[VK2MUS]

K2MUS - Actually, assessors *ARE* obliged to pack around a load of gear. Those of us that did assessor training in a classroom setting had that made abundantly clear. The creators of the program probably had a well-heeled club in mind. Once again, what works in the larger centres doesn't work quite so well in the bush. My standard "prac kit" includes 3 complete HF stations complete with antennas and 2 complete VHF/UHF stations, complete with antennas. Why so many?

1 for the candidate to talk on
1 for the candidate to hook up
1 for my LF'er to hide around the corner and QSO the candidate on.

so you need that much gear to just check that a person can carry out a qso - why not simply ask him/her to describe the procedure to carry out during a qso thats what my assessor did - do you really need a real radio to simulate a qso between two people. As to setting up a radio setting up one of your radios probably would not have meant any thing to me as the only radio I had at that time was a FT101 and the procedures required to tune and transmit as you will probably understand are totally different from working thro a menu setting the power and the mode and pressing the ptt button on a modern radio. WE got rid of the morse prac and the hobby did not collapse if we get rid of the practical test and just include it in the multi choice then the hobby will not collapse either. I would further question the use of the practical test my evidence is to simply tune your radio into 160m thro 20m and listen to the qso's by licenced operators most would fail the practical test

[VK5GR]

Grant, did you get in touch with Fred?

Sent from my SM-T805 using Tapatalk

Yes made some contact thanks and need to followup more with him. I will post more about what I have learned so far over the weekend.

[VK4DU]

so you need that much gear to just check that a person can carry out a qso - why not simply ask him/her to describe the procedure to carry out during a qso thats what my assessor did

If the assessor did not carry out the prac in accordance with the requirements - i.e. did not use equipment, then the assessment is invalid.

Period.

[VK2XSO]

What he's not telling you was it was the WIA who conducted the assessment.
What are they going to do? Revoke every licence since 2005?

If it were that simple they would not need to carry on with excessive verification and auditing because they could just revoke all of the licenses under a proven corrupt examiner.
It's a human right that you cannot be made to pay for the crimes of another person. So scrap that idea.

What you're not understanding is that everybody is doing this. Well, except for you.

Nobody was doing practicals before 2005 and they're not doing them after 2005, but they are paying $75 to the WIA for a tick on a piece of paper.

Have you recently tried becoming a WIA Exams Assessor?

Has anybody tried to becoming a non-WIA Exams Assessor?

[VK4DU]

It is easy to make sweeping statements on a forum that "everyone is doing it".

What proof do you have to back this up?

[VK3RX]

What he's not telling you was it was the WIA who conducted the assessment. What are they going to do?

As has been stated, the WIA conduct the exam system designed and administered by the ACMA. If a WIA Exams Assessor isn't following the requirements, then the WIA should conduct an investigation. The ACMA would expect this.

It's a human right that you cannot be made to pay for the crimes of another person.

The ACMA has the authority to cancel or suspend anyone's licence, or direct that they be re-examined on any subject.

[VK2ZRH]

If the exam assessment was held at the Wyong Field Day, wasn't it conducted by AR NSW? Or, perhaps, CCARC?

Can we have some facts here, please: date, time, assessment organisation (assessors' names - optional)?

[VK2MUS]

actually before everyone gets too over excited - it may pay to actually read the Practical assessment - there is no requirement that the applicant actually transmits to air - a number of the Element of Competency do not require any radio gear and a further number can be simulations basically it is upto the assessor if he/she requires actual transmission or simulated transmission via dummy loads or at a pinch two microphones not even connected to any radio and or graphic simulation . Most of the elements can use photos or graphics if the assessor wants to and antenna elements could be done with a piece of string or short wire
So my assessor used his own reasoning on what to use as outlined in the PA form and he was completely within the rules. The PA requirements does attempt to allow for situations where it is impractical to have a radio station setup for the assessment however all of the PA assessment could be done in the multi-choice exam we would expect that our operators have sufficient level of intelligent to actually read a radio manual and know that they don't plug the power into the antenna and the antenna into the power etc .

The ACMA can indeed reassess anyone to see if they still hold the level of knowledge required - I have no problem with being retested however I think a fairly large number of operators may have problems especially after seeing the failure rate on the EMI during the 1500W trial

[VK4DU]

Well, there certainly seems to be a disconnect regarding practical assessments.....

[VK2XSO]

It is easy to make sweeping statements on a forum that "everyone is doing it".

What proof do you have to back this up?

No proof at all. Did you think I would rat somebody out?
What made you think I care about policing something for somebody else which I see as corrupt in it's own existence?

And without a shred of evidence, why do I think you don't doubt me?

To follow on with this line of thinking;
Do you think the other exams might be compromised?
How would somebody achieve that?
And my personal favourite... Why would they do that?

[VK4DU]

Can you explain how the exam system is "corrupt"?

That is a serious allegation to throw about.

[VK4TI]

""Can you explain how the exam system is "corrupt"?

That is a serious allegation to throw about.""

It might be if one were to place credence in the trash claims , most of us wont .

making fallacious claims as demonstrated will bite him in the long run .

[VK4WDM]

I had to do some on-line industry-related exams about eight years ago and as I remember it the fees were between $450 and $2000, probably more now, what the WIA charges is bargain basement price.

Having said that, the system does need a re-evaluation and make-over. It is time for the WIA to set up a sub-committee to do that, part of their brief being a careful look at what is happening in other countries. The Moodle system might be a goer even if it does take a bit of funding to get it going, who knows until it is evaluated?

The WIA has setup what is probably the best awards system in the world (please don't argue that here please - there is already a thread) and there is absolutely no reason why Australia cannot have the best ham exam system in the world.

Like always, if you don't like what is happening stop sniping from the sidelines, become a WIA member, and bloody well get in there and help.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK2MUS]

I had to do some on-line industry-related exams about eight years ago and as I remember it the fees were between $450 and $2000, probably more now, what the WIA charges is bargain basement price.

Having said that, the system does need a re-evaluation and make-over. It is time for the WIA to set up a sub-committee to do that, part of their brief being a careful look at what is happening in other countries. The Moodle system might be a goer even if it does take a bit of funding to get it going, who knows until it is evaluated?

The WIA has setup what is probably the best awards system in the world (please don't argue that here please - there is already a thread) and there is absolutely no reason why Australia cannot have the best ham exam system in the world.

Like always, if you don't like what is happening stop sniping from the sidelines, become a WIA member, and bloody well get in there and help.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

one of course should not equate industry training to ham radio operator training so your cost comparison may be some what out - Moodle is a good start to move us into the computer revolution - there is a one time setup cost of the exams but I cannot see a cost that would be an over burden to the WIA and as it is allowed to cover its costs it would over time recoup them. By computerizing the exam system it is going to lower its current running costs -postage paper etc etc. I am surprised that it does not already have a committee looking into this now - it takes nothing to look at it Moodle is open source download it and run it on the desktop