160m 1/4 wave vertical

[VK2KRR]

If anyone could throw up some information on setting up 160m 1/4 wave vertical for me, that would be good. I cant find a great deal.

Im thinking of trying to do something with maybe 3" aluminium tube and guys.

Of particular interest would be settiing up the base, insulating, feeding and radials, earthing etc.

My 160m Inverted V is not working well enough on transmit.

Ta.

[VK5PJ]

Leigh,
given the number of towers you have, I would have thought an inverted L would be easily done at your QTH, maybe start from the Southern Cross for the vertical part then string the remainder to the big tower. (based on my mental map of your place from photo's)

My inverted L seems to work quite well from my tower and then across to a tree, the vertical wire is held 2 metres out from the tower before going through an electric fence insulator. Then you need to consider an earth system for it.

just a thought.

Insulators for verticals are easy to do with modern plastics, four pieces of 50mm diameter nylon at the corners of two metal plates and you have the needed strength and insulation. Drill and tap into the nylon (leaving a gap of course) and you have the mechanical stability needed too. Then I guess its either some form of centre or top loading to get the physical length down to a manageable size.

Operation from here on 160m is now all but impossible, some where in my local area is a noise source that rumbles across the band giving me S9 noise for most of the day no luck finding it yet, also have what sounds like a switch mode PSU on 50.200, sigh, the modern life I guess.

[VK2TS]

If anyone could throw up some information on setting up 160m 1/4 wave vertical for me, that would be good. I cant find a great deal.

Im thinking of trying to do something with maybe 3" aluminium tube and guys.

Of particular interest would be settiing up the base, insulating, feeding and radials, earthing etc.

My 160m Inverted V is not working well enough on transmit.

Ta.

Hi Leigh,

what ever you do use non conductive guys, I use the 5mm Spectra rope available from most boatie type shops. The breaking strains these days is that good it negates steel wire and you dont need insulators. I know of one 160mx operator who used conductive guys and his 1/4 wave vertical tunes down too low in frequency. remember when googling that the yanks spell Metre wrong and spell it Meter. I just googled and there is a fair few designs out there. From memory the ARRL handbooks have designs too. Another hint if using coax as feedline the losses are huge if a tuner is employed to tune high swr. Not sure if there is a suitable design using ladder line or open wire feeder, a hassle to get into the shack keeping it away from metal but it poops all over coax.

Cheers

[VK2KRR]

Thanks Tony for the tip.

Peter, I just measured 20m distance between the base of the south tower and the base of the north tower. Maybe 22 or 23m due to the lean in of the sides higher up.
I dont think I could do this in any case as the wire would come too close to the FM yagis on the middle tower, or would possibly touch them.

I've been interested in trying to set up a 160m 1/4 wave vertical for a while. Have strung a few up on kites or balloons before, like to do something more permanent.

PS - I know I should be working on 10 GHz set up. Im just getting ideas

[VK3YE]

Why not a T antenna?

Horizontal wire (or wires) between two towers and wire drooping down vertically.

Eg http://www.g7lrr.com/aerials/t-aerials- ... g-network/

[VK5PJ]

Hi Peter

Why not a T antenna?

The T is an often forgotten derivation but if you look at some of the country AM stations (Crystal Brook ABC in my case) you will often find one setup as the standby antenna for the main vertical, so they do work okay and at times when the standby is in use not many people complain about the lack of signal.

Leigh has three towers but am not sure on their layout so the newest tower may foul the horizontal section from what he said in the earlier comments.

[VK2KRR]

I'd also suspect a T type antenna at that height would not radiate at a real low angle on 160m?

[VK2GFC]

Hello Leigh,
a few thoughts the Low Band Dx book is good for info on MF/LF aerial systems.
I have pondered a 160m vertical sometimes....borrowing some ideas from work with MF systems, the broadcast MF mast radiators sit on a ceramic cylinder.
You would have a job finding one of those, try a glass bottle. You sit the tube over the bottle at the base. Tuning unit in a box at the mast base also.
One idea from broadcast site, we use a 100 degree radiator...easier to feed. We were running AM and needed to watch phase rotation ie that carrier and sidebands were within the band width on the aerial.
Not too much of a concern with CW or SSB.. Radials were every 3 dergrees 10% longer than the radiator.
Yes if you use wire guys they need to be broken with insulators to avoid resonant guys.
Good luck it will be a monster signal.

Regards
Gordon VK2GFC

[VK4WDM]

T type antenna at that height would not radiate at a real low angle on 160m

Its a long time since I played with a Marconi T but if I remember correctly the vertical wire did most of the radiating and efficiency was largely due to the height of the vertical component.

I put 32 radials down (more to come) for my 80-6m vertical by mowing the lawn short, laying the wire on top, and pegging them down with "weed mat pegs" ( a big wire staple) from the Bunny shop. After a few weeks they are no longer visible.

I need to think about something for 160m here but a bit difficult with a tiny block and 8m height limit. There is a 160m coil available for the Butternut HF9V. The the bandwidth is very narrow but it would be better than nothing. 600m is even more of a challenge.

Good luck!

73

Wayne

[VK4CZ]

Leigh... here's N5DG's (also a 6m DXer) new loaded 160m vert.....

[youtube]http://youtu.be/hTgH3bh8eIU[/youtube]

[VK2KRR]

[VK7DB]

The NBN fixed wireless masts they use here are 40m tall.. Put one of those up and shunt feed it.

[VK4WDM]

Check out the "no excuses" 160m vertical on this link: http://www.k6mm.com/pages/ant-v160.html

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK3QI]

Leigh,

Before you commit yourself to a giant vertical on 160mx, you need to set down what you wish to do on 160mx.

(1) Work ground wave stations up to about 200kms?

(2) Work local stations around east coast Australia from close in VK2 to further out northern VK4, or even VK6 stations

(3) Work DX stations regularly like ZL stations

(4) Attempt to work DX stations on CW or SSB

(5) Attempt some esoteric digital modes on 160mx

Interestingly, the vertical really only gives you an advantage on (1) and to a limited extent (4)

It comes as a surprise to most newbies on 160mx that the vast majority of signals on 160mx are at quite high angles - typically 30 degrees or more, with the exception of the ground wave signal.

You also find that under disturbed ionospheric conditions, there can also be some polarisation effects between V and H.

****************

The suggestions that many have made, such as T antennas, L antennas etc. all have merit, but until you are certain of what you want to do on 160mx, I would suggest you hesitate on the significant financial outlay that you will need to make.

Also, don't discount the possibility of running two switchable droopy dipoles at right angles to each other - an excellent low cost alternative - or even some switchable quarter wave slopers arranged around a tower.

And for receiving, low level antennas such as beveridges or amplified loops can work wonders.

*************

The other thing to remember is that atmospherics on 160mx can be quite extreme, especially in Summer months, so some means of reducing pickup of those static crashes can make a big difference to the performance of your station.


Cheers

Peter VK3QI (a 160mx DXer since 1965!)

[VK4TS]

Lee. What height are the free standing towers on your property ? They seem from pictures you have posted on line more that suitable to add some radials top loading and Gamma match to work on 160.


VK4TS in Sunny Queensland

[VK2KRR]

Hi Trent, the larger north tower is about 21m to the top of the tower structure.

Thanks all for the suggestions, all very interesting, and different thoughts on 160m antennas. Appreciate the input.

Really only interested in trying to put up a full 1/4 wave vertical though.

I have set up a 280m long Beverage antenna before, facing Europe fyi, though its been removed currently. Here is a pic -

Bev

[VK3HJ]

160 m is indeed a challenging band.
Peter's message pretty well covers it. What do you want to do on the band?
Antennas with different characteristics give you more options.
A receiving array is almost mandatory for hearing weak signals.
I use a top loaded vertical, using mill finish NBS telescopic mast.
Going above 20 m makes a tricky erection, especially without help.
Top load a vertical as much as you can, rather than base load. It raises the radiation resistance, making the unavoidable ground losses less significant. Build an L-match at the feedpoint for impedance matching, rather than a "tuner" at the transmitter.
I use an elevated counterpoise of 8 x 40 m wires, about 2.5 m above the ground, under a vertical radiator of 21 m. It is a very large antenna, but my purpose is to work DX. It's not as good as my big doublet for local (inside about 2000 km) contacts.
As we come off this sunspot peak, even as weak as it was, the low bands should improve.
On Norfolk Island we are using an inverted L, with about 30 m sloping up to top of Norfolk I pine, and about 10 m horizontal. We have worked NA, AS and VK but conditions at this time of year have not been good enough for Europe.
Drop me a line after I get home next week, and we can discuss further.
73,
Luke VK3HJ/VK9NT

[VK2GFR]

Hi All..
I realise this is NOT a vertical but...
I tried an SO239 Square connector socket, shorted centre to earth, then connected my 80m dipole (coax feeder) and used a tuner (single wire input) for final adjustments.
Basically a T antenna (of sorts)
I works but I don't get on Top Band much these days.
An easy out for suburbia!

[VK3HJ]

Go ahead and put up another 40 m tower, for a fullsized quarterwave monopole.
But, the RF return path is as important as the radiator. A monopole, shortened or otherwise is only half an antenna, and just sticking a few "earth rods" into the ground is almost useless for a good return path.
Read ON4UN's "Low Band DX-ing" for lots of information, not only for 160 and 80 m DXing, but HF DXing in general.
It's not worth trying to repeat it all here.
73 and will listen for your CW on Top Band soon!
Luke VK3HJ

[VK2KRR]

Luke,
I've read it. Just looking for those with first hand practical experience and extra info.