2m EME - a beginner's perspective

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VK2GOM

2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK2GOM »

EME had always been on my 'to do' list, but with various factors conspiring against me, it was always put in the 'too complicated' bucket.

Undeterred, I decided to build a DK7ZB 10ele 2m Yagi. I got the Yagi finished quite quickly, but then building the driven element took approximately a year of procrastination. Seeing Bob ZL1RS's DXPed was the impetus to get it finished. I finished the dipole, wound the impedance transformer, boxed it all up, tested it, and wondered what all the fuss had been about.

I then set about working out just how I was going to mount a 6m long Yagi in a townhouse paved back yard that is a shade under 6m long x 2.5m wide. Fortunately, for moon rise in the East, I could point the Yagi out over a council owned paddock next door, albeit over a 6ft Colourbond fence. By careful positioning of the mast on a portable mount, I could track the moon through to transit in the N, but thereafter the house would get in the way. That would mean no European stations at moonset, but it did give me a window for JA and the whole of the USA.

I used the lower portion of my NBS Antennas mast, in a home brew drive-on portable mount, and set about making the various parts to allow the antenna to elevate. A 12V 18" elevation ram was sourced off eBay.

Time for some pictures, which will tell a thousand words:

First, to mount the lower end of the elevation ram on the mast
Image

Image

And then to mount the other end of the elevation ram onto the boom
Image

I did some quick geometry in CAD with circles to work out the likely elevation angles.

The top of the mast elevation hinge was achieved by making a platform that pivoted on an M10 bolt. The holes in the top are tapped M6 again for a similar clamp arrangement to hold the boom as the elevation ram mount on the boom.
Image

So, by the time it was all put together, this was (a portion of!) the antenna at roughly horizontal
Image

As the afternoon went on, waiting for my first ever taste of EME, the clouds rolled in, and by the time darkness came, it was a 100% cloud-out with no moon to be seen. After hurriedly cooking our evening meal, feeding the dog and the rainbow lorikeet, the moon was already up (at least in theory) at around 5deg.

I got onto the EME loggers, and saw Bob KH8/ZL1RS was operating on 144.138MHz. I tuned in, hit the monitor button, and waited. I saw nothing. Minute after minute there was nothing to be seen. Stations on the logger were saying "Strong Sigs Bob" yet I was seeing nothing. An hour went by. Still nothing. I was tempted to knock it on the head as a bad job, but I persisted. Suddenly, I started to see a weak trace. It decoded as 'RO'. Then in the next minute segment, another trace; 'RRR' was decoded. The in the next trace a '73'. It was working! It appears Faraday rotation had been against my polarisation, and it was just starting to come good.
Image

By now the moon was well up at around 40deg. All pointing was done with a Silva sighting compass and an inclinometer app on my smartphone. At one point, the moon was just about visible through cloud, and I found my antenna was pointing a good 10deg off target. I quickly realigned.

By now I was starting to see CQ's from Bob, some quite strong. I also saw other QSO's in action, and a CQ from a JA station who was as strong as -19dB with me. Whether it was my mind playing tricks on me or not, but I am convinced I heard his tones in the noise on the rig speaker!
Image

I put a few calls out back to Bob, and was very aware my IC910H backplate was getting extremely hot. I grabbed a small 5" desk fan of my XYL's, and aimed that at the back of the radio to assist in cooling during Tx cycles. It certainly helped.

Bob kept calling CQ, so wasn't hearing me. Bad Faraday effects at his end? But then one cycle I didn't decode his CQ, but decoded 'VK2GOM F6BEE JN06'. So, someone was calling me, BUT - it was certainly not a French station as their moon was not up. I am guessing Bob was trying to call back, but the WSJT deep search got it wrong.

After that, signals faded again, and nothing more was seen. I got to bed around 1am after packing up.

So, after 27yrs dabbling in ham radio, I finally get to receive signals off the moon. What a thrill! 8) Moreso with my extremely limited QTH and the challenges of fitting an antenna into my back yard.

Future upgrades I can think of right now will be to mount the mast mount up on some sort of platform. Even an extra 12" in height would give the Yagi reflector more ground clearance. Also, some sort of friction brake on the azimuth axis, so I can hopefully run my lower loss 5m length of LDF4-50. The LMR400 has a calculated loss of 0.35dB over 7m, and the LDF4-50 only 0.13dB over 5m. However, wIth that stuff, IT decides where your radio goes, it's that stiff. Also, I have a feeling a lower noise preamp would assist. The MiniKits amp specs 'Noise Figure <1.5dB' I believe. Something down near 0.4dB would of course help greatly. Every fraction of a dB helps.

The next part of the challenge is of course to complete a QSO, but I feel I got off to a decent start given the QTH limitations here.

For all you guys with a garden, you have it easy. There is simply no excuse not to get started in 2m EME :D

See you on the moon sometime.

73 - Rob VK2GOM / GW0MOH
Last edited by VK2GOM on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:46 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK2OMD »

An interesting write-up Rob, well done.

Owen
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK2ZRH »

Inspiring stuff, Rob. :clap: :thumbup:

I await the next exciting episode. :wink:
73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK5PJ »

Hello Rob,
I must congratulate you on the elegant engineering solution for the task at hand, great work.

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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK3ZAZ »

Mind boggles what can be done with simple gear.

Maybe the title should be changed to 2M EMF a beginners perspective.
Did you give any thought to how much rf was floating around your back door?
reflections off screen door colour bond fence and roof.
One hopes u put up a warning sign???
I just remember the emf we measured off a dipole on a roof mount when some guy put 100w out on FM from a community radio station.

ACMA has just revised emf rules and standards
Consultation on the proposal closed on 2 May 2014.



All submissions to the public consultation are now available on the ACMA website together with a paper on the outcome of the consultation http://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/Consulta ... e-standard



The ACMA has made the following regulatory instruments:



· Radiocommunications (Electromagnetic Radiation — Human Exposure) Standard 2014

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2014L00960

· Radiocommunications (Compliance Labelling—Electromagnetic Radiation) Notice 2014

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2014L00965
Tread your own path :om:
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK4TS »

Great write up Rob...Hopefully inspired lots of others to follow suit - Engineering looks super, Elegant in it's simplicity :clap:
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK3HJ »

Perhaps you could use a second mast section to raise the antenna above your fence, at least, to will give you better clearance and less clutter.

I had thought of trying EME here, but to shoot for Europe, I'd have to aim at my only near near neigbour's house, which is just 50 m away. Plus, I live in a valley, so lose about 20 minutes at s/r and s/s.

The Moon is presently the only satellite that offers long-haul international communications for radio amateurs. This mode still intrigues me. Maybe I should drag a portable EME setup to the top of the hill in the middle of the property, about 500 m away, and 60 m higher, and a clear shot all around. But not in the middle of winter!

73 es GL,
Luke VK3HJ
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK2GOM »

Hi Luke, I did consider adding another section (the mast is 3 section 5.5m all up) but the fit is quite loose and it'd all be a bit wobbly. I did design the fittings with using an extra section as a possibility as the U-bolts on the lower elevation mount would still fit 46mm tube fine (as opposed to 50mm for the lowest mast section), and the top tilt section can simply be padded with suitable spacers/washers each side between the tilt plate and the mast top.

The only other drawback is it'd be difficult to look along the beam for visual sighting purposes :shock: Security board camera on boom and crosshairs taped on monitor perhaps?!

73 - Rob VK2GOM / GW0MOH
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK2JDS »

ladder Rob ;)
works for me at low angles
you look like you're having fun so keep at it, if anyone asks what it is tell them its an experimental solar powered clothes dryer (clothesline)
73 Dave
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK2FAK »

Hi all...

Great write up Rob, and excellent work....your builds always look very professional and you should be proud of your success that evening....


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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by ZL1RS »

Well done Rob.

Keep in mind I am running 800W and you were receiving me at -27, so it is not very likely (but not impossible) that I would decode your 100W. The smallest station I have worked so far was running a 15 element Yagi and 200W.

73, Bob KH8/ZL1RS
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK3DXE »

Rob, if you can get some more height, then you might be able to get a bit more ground gain and maybe, just maybe make yourself heard. Don't forget also, Bob, that the relative noise floors at your respective locations are likely greatly different, so -27dB in Sydney might well equate to better than -20dB S/N in the middle of the Pacific which puts things in the ballpark on GG peaks. The trick I've found is to know where your GG peaks are and time you calls for those peaks, a bit like working the QSB peaks on troppo.

When I was in inner Melbourne, I heard single yagi EU running just 250w (his end) on my single 10el LFA yagi, so it IS doable. A few comparoes with Leigh, VK2KRR indicated that my average noise floor was 10 - 20dB higher than Leigh's quiet country location, so with proper technique, I could generally work anybody I could hear off the moon with the assistance of my GG. Obviously Faraday and Deg will make things harder, but pick your times for best Deg and you'll get there.

Have a listen around when there's some activity and get a feel for things. Get to know your GG peaks, which may vary with azimuth and use the N0UK Logger to get people to listen for you, even an incomplete QSO can give you a lot of info about your station's performance. I'm currently running a very tiny 4el Cushcraft yagi on 2m (6dB gain if it's lucky with a strong wind behind it down a steep hill) and have heard some of the big Euro stations on it. Be patient and keep trying.

Good luck :thumbup:
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK2GOM »

Cracked the nut last night... Faraday was against me for about 2hrs, and I was seeing absolutely nothing. I almost thought my LNA had died. I even changed coax feeders. Then, around 1400UTC local midnight with the moon up around 45deg I started seeing traces.

I saw a CQ announcement on the N0UK EME chat from a JM station. I was seeing his CQ's. I announced I was calling him. He told me to 'keep trying'. I must have sent perhaps 4 'OOO' reports, then I saw a shorthand 'RO' come back. I sent 'RRR' and again saw a shorthand 'RO' come back. This went on for another 4 or 5 cycles until magically, I started to see the shorthand '73' tones from him... I'd done it - first ever EME QSO :clap:

The achievement for me was making the QSO from my QTH. The backyard is smaller than the antenna. It required geometry and trials to work out how I could even move the thing.

I might try and extend the mast next month and see if ground gain can help, but where the moon rises is right behind some very tall gum trees, and I can only generally see the moon from about 10 or 12deg.

73 - Rob VK2GOM / GW0MOH
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK3DXE »

Great stuff Rob. Congrats and welcome to "The Club" :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK1JA »

Congrats Rob, well done !! You've inspired me to give it a try.

Just wondering, what's your noise floor like at your QTH?

And for setting up your radio, did you turn the AGC off and use any filters (does the 910 have DSP band pass filters?) at all?

Cheers

Jayson
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK2GOM »

Hi Jayson,

I don't believe the AGC on the IC910 can actually be turned 'off'. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! I just left it on 'Fast'. I have no filters in the rig.

Noise level here seems variable. I suffer power line interference now and again. Fortunately, for the recent EME operating I haven't heard it. Fingers crossed it doesn't occur tonight.

I haven't measured my actual noise floor, but it's quite interesting to see once I wind any elevation into the antenna to follow the moon upwards from the horizon, how the noise level drops away.

What antenna / feeder / LNA have you got?

73 - Rob VK2GOM / GW0MOH
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK1JA »

Thanks Rob,

I think I'd be pushing the limits a little with my setup, and I'd be heavily relying on ground gain to help. Add to that, I don't have elevation control at the moment, so my window of opportunity would be an hour or so at moon rise/set - but I'll still give it a try :)

My set up is a GPS locked TS2000 (100w) through to 11m of LDF-450, then 6m of LMR400 to a boom mounted ARR 2m pre amp (quoted gain of 24dB and NF of 0.55dB), which feeds a 8el OWL yagi (G0KSC design - quoted gain of 14dBi - http://www.g0ksc.co.uk/2013-yagis/8el-o ... -2013.html) at 8m in height.

The noise floor will make it challenging, more incentive to get the elevation rotator back on the mast....

Cheers

Jayson
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK4TI »

VK2GOM wrote:Hi Luke, I did consider adding another section (the mast is 3 section 5.5m all up) but the fit is quite loose and it'd all be a bit wobbly. I did design the fittings with using an extra section as a possibility as the U-bolts on the lower elevation mount would still fit 46mm tube fine (as opposed to 50mm for the lowest mast section), and the top tilt section can simply be padded with suitable spacers/washers each side between the tilt plate and the mast top.

The only other drawback is it'd be difficult to look along the beam for visual sighting purposes :shock: Security board camera on boom and crosshairs taped on monitor perhaps?!

73 - Rob VK2GOM / GW0MOH
A mono cctv cam and sight works a treat , it really needs auto focus without any zoom otherwise it may burn very quickly , colour adds issues you don't need so a mono , much cheaper as well :) , remember power it down if not in use
B
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK2OMD »

VK2GOM wrote:...
Future upgrades I can think of right now will be to mount the mast mount up on some sort of platform. Even an extra 12" in height would give the Yagi reflector more ground clearance. Also, some sort of friction brake on the azimuth axis, so I can hopefully run my lower loss 5m length of LDF4-50. The LMR400 has a calculated loss of 0.35dB over 7m, and the LDF4-50 only 0.13dB over 5m. However, wIth that stuff, IT decides where your radio goes, it's that stiff. Also, I have a feeling a lower noise preamp would assist. The MiniKits amp specs 'Noise Figure <1.5dB' I believe. Something down near 0.4dB would of course help greatly. Every fraction of a dB helps.
There is a quantitative method for identifying possible improvements.

I have made some guesses here (LNA gain=16dB, NF=1.5dB, total antenna noise=250), and produced the following.
Clip 014.png
I will assume that you can't improve the antenna itself drastically... ie no bay of 4 or more possible.

You can't do a lot about total antenna noise, but the other slices of the pie (35% in total) are addressable. It is feasible to reduce that 140K Teq to less than 40K.

You cannot even see the feed line loss in the pie chart... stop obsessing about it from a receive point of view. The standout problem is the LNA which needs more gain (to reduce the size of the IC910 slice) and lower noise figure.

But when I say "problem", in the context of external noise of 250K, an excellent LNA will only improve your S/N ratio by 1dB... that is the way of these things.

Owen
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Re: 2m EME - a beginner's perspective

Post by VK2NR »

Congratulations Rob. No small feat from your QTH.

Dave.
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