VK Logger Ham Radio Forum Archive

Greetings to all readers.

Today, the Brisbane VHF Group has heard back from the ACMA following an application we had recently made that we may be granted an exemption to the prevailing embargo on amateur radio transmissions in the 3400+ MHz area with a view to our VK4RBB beacon being allowed to operate there. We were unsuccessful, so that means that the beacon cannot operate on 3400.440 MHz.

Reading into the other statements from the ACMA's e-mail to the Group, it is clear that we are not far away in time from 3400+ MHz being taken away from us - a move not unexpected by many:

"The ACMA has also recently consulted on making changes to the Amateur LCD (see http://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/Consulta ... ss-licence) as part of sunsetting. This includes preventing Amateurs from operating in certain areas within the 3400-3425 MHz and 3492.5-3542.5 MHz bands to protect future PTS licences. Until the outcome of the consultation process is known, no decision can be made. That is an exemption cannot be granted."

But there is no embargo against 3300 to 3400 MHz nor plan to take that segment away from us! So we need to be starting to consider our need to use that segment. Rather than go all the way down to 3300 MHz, it's probably better to move, say, to 3395 MHz rather than 3399 MHz. It is possible that many of the transverters that have been recently built/acquired by radio amateurs will be able to operate there with minimal or no tuning except for replacement of a crystal in some or re-programming a PLL.

What do readers think of the proposal to move everything down the band by 5 MHz to 3395 MHz, or even to 3390 MHz?

And if readers are using a KUHNE transverter, will you be readily able to move it down in frequency? KUHNE 'G2' transverters have different challenges in this regard compared to 'G3' transverters. Alternatively, can the IF radio that you use with the 3400 MHz transverter be readily tuned down in frequency by 5 or 10 MHz?

A bunch of us around South-East Queensland have already been considering these questions and 3395 MHz seems to be growing in acceptability - in which case the VK4RBB beacon would end up on 3395.440 MHz.

See what you think.....

Cheers and 73,

--Doug Friend, VK4OE.

Gidday Doug,

For my 3XDK based system, it would a fairly easy task to change the PLL to 1481.5MHz, making the LO 2963MHz and perhaps a little snowflaking to peak the filters. A small tweak of the PicAXE code and it's done.

Seems reasonable to do this for our part of the world.

Sent from my SM-T805 using Tapatalk

3395+ X MHz is fine here. With my gear.

Im not sure how the ACMA will get along in WARC with the stir going on from the C Band satellite operators. They are not happy with any proposal to put LTE in 3.4 to 4.2GHz. Who pays?
Satellite operators challenge mobiles’ use of C-band, http://www.itu.int/itunews/manager/disp ... age=C-band
by José Albuquerque, Senior Director, Spectrum Engineering, Intelsat.....how big a wig do you want...

Well if they take it away hope they have a good excuse

Funnilly the ham comunity (worldwide) has been operating in C-Band for years, dont recall any complaints.
The engineering argument that our meagre operations in this band will create interference doesnt hold. We are not operating kilowats (yet)

4AQF

My transverter will move if required but I will hold off until these changes in Australia become official. I would also be interested to hear what the 3.4GHz EME operators have to say about the move.

VK4AQF noted but I'm not sure who is more powerful, WARC/ITU or ACMA/Oz Gov? I hope the former. Also, the proposed changes will include LTE using spectrum down to 3400 so the fact that amateurs have operated there for years without interference will sadly hold little water.

Doug, even though we might be forced to be out of step with the rest of the amateur world, do you think it might be a good idea once the majority of respondents on VKlogger have their say that your proposal be put to the WIA so that

1, A call for comment can be made to the wider amateur community
2, They can modify our bandplan to guide others that want to try this band.

Doug, etc

The extra guard band 'effect' is probably a good idea so I will underwrite the 3395.0-3396.0 suggestion. I could make the move, effective almost immediately, and certainly in time for the SEQ '23 on 23' day - if I manage to participate.

I have already run up the revised number calcs for the SI4133G synth chip for my 445.000 first IF and they work out fine so it would be a matter of presetting the values in the code and uploading it to the synth.. The pipecap interstage tuning would probably be close enough to leave as-is until any major work is required on the transverter itself.

Doug VK4ADC

Hi All,

It would be great if we could keep a token narrow (200 KHz) part of 3400 but historically (2304,3456,576,etc) its the highest bidder so spectrum revenue usually wins. A consolation prize then is all the surplus gear (25 - 100 W PA's!) that becomes available when these services are obsolete or the company goes bust ... so long as we still have an allocation nearby that we can use this equipment

I agree translate the current band plan from 3400 to create a secondary plan at 3395 MHz within the exclusion areas. I think most xtal based LO's have been swapped out (at least locally) so it is just a reprogram for the various flavours of PLL's being used (I just reprogrammed my LTC6946 PLL so has both frequencies now!)

For EME it will always be a case by case situation according to the country regs at the other end ... split operation +/- 100 KHz 3400 is always one option, more difficult for those countries still using 3456.

Cheers

David VK5KK

Over here in ZL our 1 MHz wide narrow band allocation is from 3399 to 3400 MHz. It has been that way since we lost 3410 and above and hence the loss of the old 3456 MHz. I’m going to leave my PLL set at 3400 = 432 IF and with the FT817 can move down. Working VK on 9 cm tropo is possible. Cheers, Steve

3395 sounds like a good compromise.

In some ways, choosing 3399 and aligning ourselves with NZ - the only other country we are likely to work terrestrially - makes some sense. As well, most 70cm IF rigs would tune down 1 MHz without a problem. Tuning of filters, antennas ... is unlikely to be a problem - a comment which (probably, mostly) also applies to a 5 MHz downshift.

However, if the interference from NBN on 3400 and upwards becomes anything like 2400+, then 5 MHz may not prove to be anywhere near enough

Regards,
Dave
VK3HZ

New amateur LCD dated June 29, 2015 came into effect on Monday July 6, 2015.
https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2015L01113
According to intelligent commentary on Dumbbook, nothing much has changed;
However, the more astute will discover a nasty surprise that lurks within.
3.400 - 3.425 GHz

In short:
There appears to be an automatic exclusion of 3400-3425 MHz if (if) and when a telco obtains a license in that geographic block for that band.

Given the rapid uptake of wireless connectivity in general, and the inevitable need to fill NBN coverage, it's only a matter of time.
Even Blind Freddy saw this coming.
So what are these ASMG blocks referred to in Schedule 4A?
Visually, (and using the ACMA's own ASMG > kml converter) they look like this on a Google Earth map:
Note that less cities are affected, compared to the old Schedule 5 chestnut, previously discussed.


Sooner or later, the few and far between 3.4 GHz operators will need to rattle FTAC's cage for a new 9cm band plan, beneath 3400 MHz.


Failing that, there's always:

Don't shoot the messenger.

The current 3.4GHz spectrum licences can be viewed here:
http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/spect ... GHz%20Band.
So far, nothing in 3400MHz - 3425MHz.

So far, nothing in 3400MHz - 3425MHz.

True Iain for today, but with the ink just drying on the LCD surely it wont take the Telco's long to get mobilised and have their team prepare license applications and have them submitted and the required (and I assume not small) cheque enclosed!

Unwired had a Navini Networks wireless internet service until it was bought out by Optus and scrapped.
(Bought for the spectrum space no doubt)

I used Unwired for my backup internet, in case the ADSL stopped. (It did, lightning, three routers one summer)

I used Unwired to 'get' ADSL customers out of trouble.

Unwired used about 3.3GHz. I built two horn antenna to get it reliable over my 7Km path to the tower somewhere in Penrith NSW.

It was stunningly reliable. and ALWAYS gave me my allocated bandwidth.

Alan VK2ZIW

Radiocommunications Spectrum Marketing Plan (3.4 GHz Band) 2004

https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2005B00224

From what I understand, all 3.4 GHz licenses issued under this plan expire 31 December, 2015.
(The ACMA definition of '3.4 GHz' in the current document starts at 3425 MHz.)

This current working plan expires on April 1 next year, so it's safe to assume a replacement plan will be issued to come into effect by January 1, 2016.

Considering the new Amateur LCD now has a mechanism to automatically exclude operation from 3400 - 3425 MHz, we can safely assume things will dramatically change in 2016.

Watch this space.

Quote from another topic, but preferable to keep all 3.3-3.4 GHz related discussion together.

VK4TIM wrote:I would say that we should at least try for:
.
.
.
Retain 3300 to 3410 MHz.

Tim, the ACMA regard 3400 - 3425 MHz as one block, so highly unlikely hams will retain 3400 - 3410 MHz.
This is just wishful thinking.
Towards 2020 — Future spectrum requirements for mobile broadband

http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/ma ... ements.pdf

This paper was released in May 2011.
From page 48;
Recent changes to the Amateur LCD (July 6, 2015) provide evidence of continuing to move in that direction.

This was also alluded to in October 2014;

Outcome of consultation on future arrangements in the 3.5 GHz band

http://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2 ... 0Oct14.pdf
However, ACMA do come across as not knowing what to do with the 3.3 GHz band, yet.
The only worrying word in table 5.11 above is "available", as in "available technologies".

3.3 GHz may be the ham's safe haven, for now.
One would hope the forward thinking FTAC is on the cusp of releasing a revised 3300- 3400 MHz band plan.

One might also think the smart thing is to move down below 3400 MHz ASAP, irrespective of if/when telcos get 3400 - 3425 MHz, because that will be a sudden reality check when it does happen.

Just sayin.

Looks like provisions to accommodate a move have been made.

no restrictions for us to use 3.575 to 3.600 GHz, it seems sensible to re-tune our LO's to use 3.580 as our base weak signal frequency.

Sent from my SM-T805 using Tapatalk

Went up the "Hill" yesterday and NBN Co has posted a DA sign on the side of the Wilkes Knob hill (the one where the existing towers are located). So looks like we will be getting 3.4G crud around this area soon.

Hi all,
Where will the VK's be on the 9 cm band this summer DX season? What spot frequency? VK2 and VK4?. Excuse me but I'm getting confused with these posting.
Cheers, Steve

ZL1TPH wrote:Hi all,
Where will the VK's be on the 9 cm band this summer DX season? What spot frequency? VK2 and VK4?. Excuse me but I'm getting confused with these posting.
Cheers, Steve

Maybe best for you to nominate the frequency Steve. Our allocation still covers yours so best if you set the rules.

So since Doug proposed the shift to 3395 most respondents have agreed with the shift down in frequency although one has suggested a move 180MHz higher in frequency than our current allocation.

Steve reports the ZL allocation is 3399 to 3400
TAC has proposed relocating to 3398 but of course we still have unrestricted access to 3300 - 3400
VK4EA proposed 3580

Nothing heard from the EME crowd but i assume they'll make arrangements to operate split to EU and US

Anyone else?