VK3RWN Dstar Repeater system's future - public meeting 26/6.

VK3BQ · Post by **VK3BQ** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:43 pm

Dstar users in greater Melbourne.

Emdrc is currently undertaking analysis and a review on the continued operation of the clubs VK3RWN Dstar repeaters at Olinda with the recent advice form the WIA on cost transfer.

As such.

Any parties interested in the continued operation of the VK3RWN system are invited to an open meeting Thursday 26th June at 7:30pm at the clubs rooms.

The final decision on the continued operation of the VK3RWN DStar system lies with the club committee and member base.

However - we seek input from and want to ensure all users of the system have been given opportunity to discuss the current club position and impact decommissioning the system may cause before a decision is reached. If you wish the VK3RWN Dstar repeater to continue to operate in its current location and setup, this is your opportunity to have your say.

Clubroom details at http://www.emdrc.com.au/club_rooms.html

13A McCubbin St Burwood - Down the dirt driveway at the Green Letterbox.

thanks, see you there..

EMDRC Vice President.

VK3HZ · Post by **VK3HZ** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:47 am

Ah yes, D-STAR.

You might enlighten us beforehand as to how much this cost transfer is to be?

Out of interest, I thought I'd visit the "official" VK D-STAR page (http://www.dstar.org.au) to find out more. I discovered that there is a log of activity so I had a look at the VK3 repeaters.

Of the 8 sites listed, over the last 30 days:
- one is off air and one is "portable" so is probably also off air
- 3 show absolutely no activity
- 1 shows one contact
- 1 shows 4 contacts
- VK3RWN shows 47 contacts

But while at first glance RWN looks reasonably active, for the first 20 days of that 30 day period, RWN shows only 8 contacts - one every 2.5 days.
I wonder if news of its imminent demise review became known about 10 days ago.

My opinion only, but there's been an awful lot of Amateur Community (WIA and Radio Clubs) money ploughed into this D-STAR infrastructure to give what is a distinctly low-tech system, used by very few, to the advantage of one commercial vendor.

It's about time we moved on.

Regards,
Dave
VK3HZ

VK4DU · Post by **VK4DU** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:33 am

You have a point, Dave....

D-Star is very quiet in Sydney.

The system seems to be rather riven by politics (I'm shocked!

)...the VK2 D-Star repeaters can't connect to the DCS reflectors, blah, blah, etc, etc.

I understand that Icom have a new AR products manager, who is keen to lift the profile of D-Star.

73
Glenn VK4DU

VK5ZLR · Post by **VK5ZLR** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:51 am

Indeed, Dave is bang on with his comments.

VK3BQ · Post by **VK3BQ** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:39 am

10 days ago was about when the discussion on the fate began

Removing internet connections and NON rf users, the below is activity on the system. (still some duplicates?, wonder if I've removed the right ones?) shows the list below.

the 70cm (VK3RWN B) box is off air, its been off air for who knows how long, and we have no idea who looks after it anymore, thus why it hasn't been fixed. clearly its not being missed?? but i don't know.. we don't appear to have had any complaints.

23cm has 1 user in the last ~x weeks. does the DATA box on 23cm have logs? does anyone use this 128kbps data mode?

http://www.dstarusers.org/viewrepeater. ... tem=VK3RWN

Unique Stations Heard In The Last 14 Days on VK3RWN
Callsign Time Heard Reporting Node
VK3BMX M 06/17/14 23:14:38 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3PG M 06/17/14 20:23:23 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3VCS 06/17/14 20:21:36 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3UMC 06/17/14 13:31:02 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3UBO 06/17/14 13:03:25 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3MNZ 06/17/14 11:44:00 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3LAI 06/17/14 10:22:36 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3PTT 06/17/14 08:33:56 UTC VK3RWN A 1.2GHz
VK3KQ 06/17/14 08:06:05 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3BA W 06/16/14 23:22:33 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3WOW 06/16/14 12:25:39 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3BMX 06/15/14 10:44:43 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3KV 06/15/14 03:01:13 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3MGT M 06/15/14 01:05:54 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3GHZ 06/14/14 10:39:32 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3DLR 06/14/14 09:10:21 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3VCR 06/12/14 12:04:21 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3AAD 06/12/14 11:17:21 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3MY 06/12/14 03:51:30 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3PF 06/10/14 11:16:24 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3HCL 06/10/14 05:58:37 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3ZHQ P 06/10/14 03:46:05 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3UO 06/09/14 04:22:07 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3MJF M 06/09/14 00:44:32 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3MH P 06/08/14 05:30:09 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3MVS 06/08/14 04:18:31 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3GER 06/08/14 03:29:15 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3YP 06/07/14 23:14:05 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3AP 06/07/14 10:23:58 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3KTM 06/07/14 07:07:47 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3EHG P 06/07/14 06:51:47 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3TAS 06/06/14 04:26:36 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters
VK3MY W 06/05/14 22:43:31 UTC VK3RWN C 2 Meters

VK3QI · Post by **VK3QI** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:53 pm

Andrew,

How many of the users on that list are ACTUALLY paid up members of the EMDRC? No names, just a number.

If the WIA is to cost shift, then clearly the Club Membership and Committee should have the final say on what eventuates.

Cheers

Peter VK3QI

VK3BQ · Post by **VK3BQ** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:59 pm

Lots of discussion around this. Hopefully anyone with an interest attends.

VK3HZ · Post by **VK3HZ** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:18 pm

Any answers to the question posed yet?

VK3BQ · Post by **VK3BQ** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:33 pm

Lots of questions. Local club member use. Single digit % usage.

See you Thursday night David?? Can you bring an xref-ft as well please

. Thanks

VK3XL · Post by **VK3XL** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:35 pm

I just finished listening to a recent ICQ podcast where it was stated that none of the 4 Dstar repeaters around London have retained their internet connections, so they are now just a digital mode repeater. Some of the clubs in UK have installed DRM repeaters now and it looks like Dstar may be loosing its appeal (at least in the UK).

VK3BQ · Post by **VK3BQ** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:29 am

Interesting meeting. We had 26 attend.

VK4DU · Post by **VK4DU** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:04 am

So, what happened, mate?

73
Glenn

VK3ALB · Post by **VK3ALB** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:48 pm

Andrew,

You've dragged the WIA all over hill and dale regarding pdf magazines and licensing delays. I reckon this is at least as interesting as those two topic. What's the deal?

VK2ZRH · Post by **VK2ZRH** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:59 pm

Ssshhh, Lou.

It must be a secret.

VK3ALB · Post by **VK3ALB** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:12 pm

Roger,

There's an old saying that goes "it's no fun if you can't air your privates in public".

Well something like that.

VK3BQ · Post by **VK3BQ** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:49 pm

We had 26 people attend.

The meeting was to understand the impacts of any change and discuss ideas of ways to solve the potential issue of internet being disconnected(and/or)he repeater being removed.

It also highlighted some wider dstar system management issues. But may have found a solution with this also. The whole public nature of me creating this meeting appears to have brought to a head a number of issues. (And solutions)

I note that neither of you were there? Like the wia agm meeting/forum. It wasn't webcast/broadcast/shared. But the invitation was for all. Not just emdrc members

The Meeting was never going to provide an answer. As advised far and wide. That decision lies within emdrc (and the wia)

At issue. The $105pcm internet bill the club has been asked to take over.

The club (emdrc) has declined to take on this liability/risk

We have had an offer for funding 3 months of internet cover. In it's current form (July-September) this will ensure no interruption to the network as this repeater is a critical part of the Australian system.

A group of users are in the process of creating a dstar users group. They will seek members/sponsorship/assistance/donations/holy intervention (choose your own deity) they will need to raise the funds and accept to take on commercial risk of the internet and have this "account" transferred to the group *requires a 2 year ISP contract! The contracted fee is around $1800 for the 2 years.

Emdrc will continue to host the site (with thanks to JRD communications) cover power and licensee fees (already tied in with our 2m fm voice repeater 147.175Mhz vk3rse)

However we may have made progress. The final decision requires two steps.

Emdrc commitee need to agree with the proposed outcome, both short term (not an issue) and the longer term one in the coming 12 weeks with a real solution

Wia board need to agree with emdrc proposal. Both this 3 month stay. And any longer term agreement that is created for ongoing site operation

So. Emdrc has secured 3 months of ongoing operation while the users try and find a solution. If wia agrees. Or it will be turned off and returned as per the letter.

If everyone agrees. Its now for the system users To find a solution.

**if anyone wants to fund/sponsor in advance emdrc for the $1800 the new 2 year contract will cost. We can transfer the plan to the club today and solve the issue now

Secret squirrel grip mode off.
*iphone text entry/writing sucks.

Is that open and transparent enough?

VK3ALB · Post by **VK3ALB** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:42 pm

It's interesting to note just how much it costs to maintain and run a single repeater let alone including the cost of an internet connection. We're pretty lucky to have so many repeaters and beacons on the air and tend to use them without too much concern for cost or behind the scene effort to keep them going. In fact there's almost a sense of entitlement. The nasty emails and generally inaccurate rumors do fly when a service like this goes off the air.

It's good to get information like this out in the open for all to see.

Is there any point maintaining the DSTAR repeater if there is no internet access?

VK5PJ · Post by **VK5PJ** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:02 pm

Hi Lou,
a similar thing is happening in VK5 to normal voice repeaters, some costs that were being paid by the WIA are being pushed back to the end user clubs for them to pay. The repeater and beacon systems at vk5rbv are now in a questionable state, while the repeater is all but silent as far as use goes, the APRS and Beacon do perform well.

VK3ALB wrote:It's interesting to note just how much it costs to maintain and run a single repeater let alone including the cost of an internet connection.

From what I can see the bucket of money from the various divisions when the Federal WIA was formed has reached the bottom and I think there will be more of these push backs, particularly in VK5 as there was some agreement to fund these for a while after federation.

While not all about DSTAR, it is sort of on topic.

Regards,
Peter, vk5pj

VK3ALB · Post by **VK3ALB** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:21 pm

VK5PJ wrote:
While not all about DSTAR, it is sort of on topic.

Regards,
Peter, vk5pj

Agreed. It's a red flag/tip of the iceberg/wake up call. Coming to a repeater near you.

VK3BQ · Post by **VK3BQ** » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:25 pm

Lou. Without internet. It does not make a lot of sense.

More so. If vk3rwn goes down. It takes with it all vk3 dstar user registrations and some linking/gateway functions state wide (and some impact nationally). Or someone would need to recover the system/database and move it so it continued operation. Easy in a country town. Or in someone's backyard. Not easy on a mountain overlooking greater Melbourne.

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