Meaning of mast and self-assessable

[VK4UR]

My local shire website says under self-assessable work:

"It is a non-load bearing aerial, antennae, satellite dish with a maximum diameter of 900 millimetres, flagpole, mast or tower, outside areas covered by airport Obstacle Limitation Surfaces Standards (OLS) of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and it is: detached from a building or structure and not more than 10 metres above natural ground surface and within the building envelope; or attached to a building or structure, is not more than 3.5 metres above the building or structure."

Do you read this to understand that I am permitted to install a mast with an HF yagi without any application process? I want to place a Hex Beam on a NBS tilt over mast at a height of 10 metres with all work to be done to relevant standards. Am I within my right to proceed without contacting the council?

[VK4TI]

My local shire website says under self-assessable work:

"It is a non-load bearing aerial, antennae, satellite dish with a maximum diameter of 900 millimetres, flagpole, mast or tower, outside areas covered by airport Obstacle Limitation Surfaces Standards (OLS) of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and it is: detached from a building or structure and not more than 10 metres above natural ground surface and within the building envelope; or attached to a building or structure, is not more than 3.5 metres above the building or structure."

Do you read this to understand that I am permitted to install a mast with an HF yagi without any application process? I want to place a Hex Beam on a NBS tilt over mast at a height of 10 metres with all work to be done to relevant standards. Am I within my right to proceed without contacting the council?

Depends very much on how hungry the council is , remember the hex has lift meaning the mast like mine should be about 8.5 t 9m depending , I have several antennas up and over some years council has never had cause to approach any installation .
Of course the neighbors have no problems with interference so no complaints and visually pollution is minimal

[VK4BLP]

Reads similar to the Logan Council ones.

It also mentions that it must be inside the building envelope too.

I'm building a new house at JImboomba, and the neighbour is on the warpath seeing the hole dug for my tower base, and has already started to lobby all the neighbours in to the RF dangers that it will create to them.

She told me tonight that she's been on to the State MP in Beaudesert about it, and that she's concerned for her children and unborn baby from the RF emissions all whilst talking on her MOBILE PHONE !

Anyone from the Logan City area who has experience in getting towers through ?

[VK4TS]

Brendan

10M is the limit for self assessable..are you in a suburban(residential) block or rural residential or rural ? they have different guidelines - a 30M tower can be installed on a Rural residential block as long as you have an engineer sign off..fee to council on the last one I know of was $250...

Self assessment up to ten M still needs to meet reasonable persons tests -

If you want council to approve then there is no problem as long as you have deep pockets.

In most cases the principles shown in Maciszewski v Casey CC [2003] VCAT 402 (10 April 2003) would apply -where the usage was for a hobby and not unreasonable to install same.

Maybe you could ask your recalcitrant neighbour to help you with the install so that you could put it up even higher to ensure she didn't get any cancer causing radiation...

[VK4WDM]

A documented "level 2" EMR assessment may be of benefit, even if the installation is going to be "level 1 compliant. During a recent portable operation by the RAAF museum station VK4KG' we were asked by a council safety officer about EMR risk. I had already done a level 2 assessment and showed him the spreadsheets showing that the roped off exclusion area around the antennas was twice the size required in the spread sheet and that the public (and the operators) were not at risk. He was very impressed that "amateurs" would do such an in-depth assessment. The neighbor concerned is not likely to understand or believe this data but it would be handy to have if the dispute moves to a mediation situation.

At the end of the day, if the installation meets the council building requirements and is EMR compliant, I cannot see how the neighbors can stop you operating unless they go and get a court injunction on some grounds, and that would be a costly exercise for them.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK4UR]

I went in to the local council office in Toowoomba and confirmed that 10 metres is acceptable and is self assessable. I showed a city planner my plans and photos of the antenna I wanted to install. He said no problem. I have had wire antennas at 10 metres since I have been in this house and had no complaints from any neighbours. One asked me what it was when I first put it up, but he didn't seem concerned. I am in an area with 1500 sq metre blocks so maybe that helps as the antenna will be at least 30 metres from any house and over 10 metres from the boundary fence. The local council officer told me I had to be at least 3 metres from a boundary. I have a NBS Antennas tilt over mast coming soon and will be putting a Hex Beam up at 10 metres; hopefully no complaints from neighbours and no problem with council.

[VK4BLP]

At the end of the day, if the installation meets the council building requirements and is EMR compliant, I cannot see how the neighbors can stop you operating unless they go and get a court injunction on some grounds, and that would be a costly exercise for them.

At present she's pushing for the developer (QM Properties) to enforce the covenent on the estate, and implying to people if they disagree with her viewpoint, then they are bad parents and should be ashamed of themselves. One of the neighbours told me this today, and that she's pushing QM Properties on the basis of it being an eyesore and reducing the amenity of the area.

The tower will up towards the top of the rise, and around 110 metres from the front boundary, about 60m from her house (and base of tower is higher than the peak of her roof). It's also around 15-18m away from both side boundaries, and 7 or 8 metres from the rear boundary.

Spoken to a councillor who was in AR, but has let his licence lapse, albeit from a different division, and he's advised me that it all should be okay (minimum 10m from front fence, and 6m from each boundary).

There should be no problems long term, as landscaping will include trees and shrubbery down the front coming back towards the house, so it definately won't be seen from the road unless specifically looking for it, and when the house goes up, the roof is likely to obstruct the view of half the tower from the road and even that neighbours house.

[VK2AAH]

Are you serious Brendan? 60m from her place?

In some parts of Sydney she wouldn't be in the same suburb, let alone be classed as a neighbor... 60m... sheesh... you could almost bring in curvature of the earth into the argument... just kidding of course, but 60m, 200feet in the old money, is a long way from the tower. In some areas block widths are less than 20m so we are talking a few building blocks apart... if that can't be viewed as being vexatious I don't know what is.

Good luck with this Brendan- not that I think you need much luck because the argument against it is very weak.

Cheers

Richard
VK2AAH

[VK4TS]

This was posted on an old blog - But it was a response from Beaudesert Shire to Laurie VK4VCC regarding a tower application - might give you some hints..

Address according to ACMA is..
49-51 St Jude Cct JIMBOOMBA
QLD 4280

http://ljcap.blogspot.com/2007/11/tower-update.html

Under the transitional (now Superseded Planning Scheme) there was a definition for "Radio or Television Transmitter". This definition specifically excluded amateur radio operator's antennae up to 30m high.

In the new scheme the nearest equivalent definition is "Telecommunications Facilities". This definition excludes "low impact facilities" as per federal laws. This definition is primarily focused on mobile phone towers.

Generally I would say that a 15m amateur antennae would be an ancillary use under the House definition. I would still deal with it this way despite there not being an existing dwelling on the lot at present.

In summary, Council does not require a development application for a 15m amateur antennae that would be an ancillary use under the House definition, under The IPA Beaudesert Shire Planning Scheme 2007.

[VK4BLP]

Thanks Trent, that side is no longer the same it was a while ago, so that detail has disappeared in to the ether.

I've actually met Laurie quite a while ago when I was building my tower to see how the one man tower was built, which I modified to suit myself. This is the 'problem' tower that I took down at my old home, and moving to the new block of dirt.

One of the LCC councillors is a former AR operator, and I've quizzed him on it, and he's said I should have no worries at all about it, and to give him a call if I want more info. Unfortunately, this is not his division.

The next door neighbours on the other side are looking at building up performance cars, so they're probably more 'toxic' than me with AR, but they are actually related some way to the currect councillor for this area, so I'm going to try and get on their good side. I don't mind what they're going to do, as I'm a motorsport fan myself (should actually be trackside at the AGP this year), so it won't be hard to work with them.

[VK4BLP]

FWIW, tower slab was poured at the same time as the house slab. She came up to the fence a few days before to call out to me that this was her formal advice to us that if we entered her property that she'd have us charged with trespass (not bad when other neighbours were telling me that she and her friends were regulary doing inspections of our block whilst we were away). I assume she brought that up because she thought that we'd need to drive the concrete truck up through her block of land to get up to where the hole for the tower was to be concreted, however as we had a concrete pump onsite for the slab, they used that to get the concrete up the 6 metres up to the tower base.

Seeing since she didn't win on that one, she complained about a noise issue of the concrete trucks to the council, by claiming concrete trucks were there at 5:10am, even though the first bit of concrete was delivered to the slab at 6:50am (work can start after 6:30am in Logan). I was there and took timestamped photos that can prove that. Even though it really is impossible for concrete to sit in a truck for 100 minutes after it supposedly arrived on site, as that would mean it was in the truck for over 2 hours (we're at least 25-30 minutes drive from the plant).

Anyway, council is still keeping this 'noise complaint' on record, even though they accepted that 5:10am was incorrect.

My tales of woe are likely to continue with this neighbour, so those about to put up their towers this is the sort of rubbish you might have to deal with if you get paranoid neighbours close by to you.

Logan Council rules according to a councillor from a different division, but whom was once a VK4, is no closer than 10 metres from front boundary, and 6 metres from rear and side boundaries, in my case the closest boundary is the rear one but the tower is 10 metres from that one. He also added that it does not need to be within the building envelope either. All self assessable too.

[VK4BLP]

Just a follow up to my tower issues at my new yet to be finished home at Jimboomba.

I got a letter from the land developer's covenant section who found out that I had been in touch with council to get a modification to the MCU to allow the tower to be build outside of the building envelope.

In their letter they advised me that I had breached the covenant on the basis that I did not apply to them first, but went direct to the council.

They went on to say that if I had done so, they would not have approved it based upon 3 of the clauses in that covenant !

First one is "No building or part of building including a dwelling house shall be erected outside of the building envelope".

Second clause talks about colours and finishes of individual residences, and encourages sensitivity of design to enhance the character of the area.

Third one talks about screening of clotheslines, hot water systems,etc, to be screened from view from any street.

The last sentence of the letter states "We also do not consider the construction of a large Antenna would be conducive to the overall amenity of Jimboomba Woods Estate."

It seems like I'm on a pretty much no-win situation with the developer, who has no real idea of what I am actually doing.

[VK4TI]

Just a follow up to my tower issues at my new yet to be finished home at Jimboomba.

I got a letter from the land developer's covenant section who found out that I had been in touch with council to get a modification to the MCU to allow the tower to be build outside of the building envelope.

In their letter they advised me that I had breached the covenant on the basis that I did not apply to them first, but went direct to the council.

They went on to say that if I had done so, they would not have approved it based upon 3 of the clauses in that covenant !

First one is "No building or part of building including a dwelling house shall be erected outside of the building envelope".

Second clause talks about colours and finishes of individual residences, and encourages sensitivity of design to enhance the character of the area.

Third one talks about screening of clotheslines, hot water systems,etc, to be screened from view from any street.

The last sentence of the letter states "We also do not consider the construction of a large Antenna would be conducive to the overall amenity of Jimboomba Woods Estate."

It seems like I'm on a pretty much no-win situation with the developer, who has no real idea of what I am actually doing.

You need to seek a knowledgeable solicitor on the matter as the covenants appear to be unreasonable , I suspect there is some bluff involved and with the right advice entirely possible to negate their claims as ultimately council overrides developer , did they specifically point the matter out on you asking , you did ask ?
Not sure about which estate it is but if there are masts in the surrounding development then you have a strong case surely ? I can't see the zoning but that should be semi rural ?

[VK4BLP]

You need to seek a knowledgeable solicitor on the matter as the covenants appear to be unreasonable , I suspect there is some bluff involved and with the right advice entirely possible to negate their claims as ultimately council overrides developer , did they specifically point the matter out on you asking , you did ask ?
Not sure about which estate it is but if there are masts in the surrounding development then you have a strong case surely ? I can't see the zoning but that should be semi rural ?

I was told by a councillor that a developer has a lot of say over the council DA section, and that this letter from them is likely to sway the DA people to knock it back. I haven't spoken to the DA section yet, so nothing from that side yet. It was suggested that I talk to the developer and smooth the water over with them, which I think would be like selling snow to the eskimos.

I never asked the developer about the tower at all, because I wasn't applying for a building permit for any building works, and that's what it pretty much says in the covenant. I did apply to the council for a modification to the MCU that was already in place, to allow me to put the tower outside of the building envelope. That to me is effectively including the tower location as 'inside' the building envelope as such.

The developer only talks about the building or part of the building including the dwelling house, and I never thought a tower was a 'building'.

The Jimboomba Woods Estate has block sizes 1 to 4 acres in size, and mine is just a bit over one acre (4661 sq m) in size. The tower is to be located about 110 metres from the front fence boundary, up near the top of the block where there are some trees, along with extra trees I'd be putting around my block would completely screen it from the road, and thus complying with the screening requirement of the covenant, as well as places to hang a wire loop off too !

Any idea if the WIA offers assistance in these matters to WIA members ?

[VK4TS]

Yes

[VK4TI]

Yes

oops ignore

[VK4TS]

Baza,

It was just less than 30 characters --

Tower covenants in Queensland require reading of the relevant State act that over rides local regulations. Also note that in many jurisdictions the original covenants are usually only binding on the original purchaser. If you could find a way to change owner ship to a trust for example and avoid state stamps it may be cheaper than running up solicitor bills...

Personally - I would make sure it fell into the exclusions under the State Planning Code OR make it in such a way that it is NOT a permanent structure eg guyed to 1M concrete cubes that are transportable in nature and as such do not come under the building codes..

[VK4WDM]

NOT a permanent structure

Some hams have got around the problem by mounting a mast and beam on a trailer

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK4BLP]

Just spoken to council DA people who advised me that they will be rejecting my application and suggested that I withdraw it so that I can at least get my $545 application fee refunded.

The also advised me that any tower these days must not exceed 8.5 metres in height, which rather surprised me about it all.


The grounds is that I have not approval from the covenant people at the developers, as they say that there's no point in them granting me permission if the covenant won't allow it.

It was suggested a sit down meeting with the covenant people to explain my request to them, and then see what comes out from it. I doubt it will make much of a difference with those who kicked up the stink about it in the first place are apparently friends with the covenant people, or at least the person that does the covenant inspections in the area.

[VK3DXE]

How high can you go above your roofline if you install a roof-mounted tower? That might work, and cheese the freako neighbor off adequately