VK2RCW
Re: VK2RCW
First time I've seen it and I know nothing of its history. Why do you ask?
Richard
VK2AAH
Richard
VK2AAH
Re: VK2RCW
Needle Mountain to the middle of Orange line of sight? Wow Trash, you must have great eye sight...
If it was on Canobolas I may have a little sympathy but doesn't this epitomise the whole problem with frequency reuse when there is an attititude that a service 150+km away is too close? (edit: Google tells me it is over 200km!)
And I know how well Needle Mountain propagates but this is where CTCSS is the logical solution. The chances of a station keying up both is low anyway but CTCSS on one would fix that. The probability of anyone being in the 6db overlap region where both would be about the same signal strength is very low.
Cheers
Richard
VK2AAH
If it was on Canobolas I may have a little sympathy but doesn't this epitomise the whole problem with frequency reuse when there is an attititude that a service 150+km away is too close? (edit: Google tells me it is over 200km!)
And I know how well Needle Mountain propagates but this is where CTCSS is the logical solution. The chances of a station keying up both is low anyway but CTCSS on one would fix that. The probability of anyone being in the 6db overlap region where both would be about the same signal strength is very low.
Cheers
Richard
VK2AAH
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VK2XSO
Re: VK2RCW
I do have very good eyesight, thank you.Needle Mountain to the middle of Orange line of sight? Wow Trash, you must have great eye sight.
You can chose to be literal about it but you know what is meant by that in terms of VHF.
The visual horizon is about 100km from VK2RCC.
The VHF horizon is 240km from VK2RCC.
Orange is 215km away.
Clearly you don't know how needle mountain propagates because this is live data from the site.
http://aprs.fi/info/a/VK2RCC-1
APRS uses 145.175MHz so it provides excellent real world, real time information from VK2RCC.
The issue isn't about one repeater's input interfering with the other so much as the outputs interfering with each other in the very large overlap area.
Lets consider the neighbouring repeaters and which frequencies aren't closely allocated or are obstructed by mountains.
146.625 VK2RNW Kaputar & VK2RLD Razorback
146.650 VK2RDX Mt Bindo
146.675 VK2RLH Bathurst (off air)
146.700
146.725 VK2RCD Dubbo
146.750 VK2RTM Tamworth
146.775 VK2RBE Cootamundra & Newcastle
146.800 VK2RCC Coonabarabran ***
146.825 VK2RGN Goulburn
146.850
146.875 VK2RZL Muswellbrook. This repeater is obstructed by part of the range and is not frequently used.
146.900 VK2RRT Condobolin
146.925
146.950 VK1RGI Mt Ginini
147.000
147.025 VK2RAO Canobolis
147.050 VK2RBM Lawson - Coverage doesn't extend past Mt Victoria
147.100 VK2RWM Grenfel
147.125 WICEN
147.150 WICEN
147.175 WICEN
147.200
147.225 VK2RYL Ryleston
147.250
147.275
147.300
147.325 VK2RTS Lawson - Coverage is to the east of Katoomba
147.350
147.375
So, back to the question.
What frequency did the local club request and why was this one allocated ?
Re: VK2RCW
Well Trash thank you. I bow at your almighty feet & superior knowledge of VHF propagation. When you come in to the real world & wake up to the fact that you don't live in a world where frequency reuse distance is infinite, come back & have a sensible discussion.
I know what the ACMA & every other sensible frequency planner expects to be a practical reuse distance. You don't make the rules Trash, and it does not help give amateur radio a good image when someone who is supposed to be knowledgeable describes a service at over 200km distance "line of sight". It isn't line of sight, VHF or otherwise, that is just a stupid statement. No repeater licence gives the licence holder immunity from "noise" generated by a service 200+km away- the licence holder in Orange has every right to operate that service and if you cop interference from mobiles using that repeater then deal with it- it is called CTCSS. There is absolutely no point in looking at other frequency pairs that may have offered a better distance separation- the assignment complies & that to me is the end of the issue. The whole topic started by you was based on a big fib. I suppose I could find the answer to your question but honestly Trash... you are such an arrogant pratt that I'm not going to bother.
And mate... I probably know the base sites of NSW better than almost anyone in the industry. So pull your head in.
Richard
VK2AAH
I know what the ACMA & every other sensible frequency planner expects to be a practical reuse distance. You don't make the rules Trash, and it does not help give amateur radio a good image when someone who is supposed to be knowledgeable describes a service at over 200km distance "line of sight". It isn't line of sight, VHF or otherwise, that is just a stupid statement. No repeater licence gives the licence holder immunity from "noise" generated by a service 200+km away- the licence holder in Orange has every right to operate that service and if you cop interference from mobiles using that repeater then deal with it- it is called CTCSS. There is absolutely no point in looking at other frequency pairs that may have offered a better distance separation- the assignment complies & that to me is the end of the issue. The whole topic started by you was based on a big fib. I suppose I could find the answer to your question but honestly Trash... you are such an arrogant pratt that I'm not going to bother.
And mate... I probably know the base sites of NSW better than almost anyone in the industry. So pull your head in.
Richard
VK2AAH
Last edited by VK2AAH on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: VK2RCW
Richard,
How do you know that Trash has almighty feet ( your spelling ).
73
Glenn
How do you know that Trash has almighty feet ( your spelling ).
73
Glenn
Re: VK2RCW
Who is this Richard VK2AAH ??
Hey Richard if you read this (others will) it is no proper to tell another amateur to "pull his head in" and threaten him with the word mate to begin.
You owe trash an open apology ..
Regards,
Stephen ZL1TPH
Hey Richard if you read this (others will) it is no proper to tell another amateur to "pull his head in" and threaten him with the word mate to begin.
You owe trash an open apology ..
Regards,
Stephen ZL1TPH
Re: VK2RCW
Stephen,
I have answered your question directly by PM.
When Trash asked his question I thought he was raising a legitimate mistake. I wanted to help & am in a position to do so. Please see my first email. Trash then replied with what was a lie- that is (a) "nearby" and (b) "line of sight". I then went to the ACMA database only to find that it was in fact neither. My subsequent reply explains the reasoning & the rules that apply. I then cop a smart alec response from Trash... and you want me to apologise?
There are rules we follow. I know Trash is proud of being an anarchist. I'm not, and neither is the ACMA. The assignment complies, I know that & I think Trash knows that. If he wanted to complain he could be contacting either ACMA or the WIA. But since he would be getting the same reply I have already given it is more rewarding to stir rubbish here.
Cheers
Richard
VK2AAH
I have answered your question directly by PM.
When Trash asked his question I thought he was raising a legitimate mistake. I wanted to help & am in a position to do so. Please see my first email. Trash then replied with what was a lie- that is (a) "nearby" and (b) "line of sight". I then went to the ACMA database only to find that it was in fact neither. My subsequent reply explains the reasoning & the rules that apply. I then cop a smart alec response from Trash... and you want me to apologise?
There are rules we follow. I know Trash is proud of being an anarchist. I'm not, and neither is the ACMA. The assignment complies, I know that & I think Trash knows that. If he wanted to complain he could be contacting either ACMA or the WIA. But since he would be getting the same reply I have already given it is more rewarding to stir rubbish here.
Cheers
Richard
VK2AAH
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VK2XSO
Re: VK2RCW
The question was and still is;
Who requested or allocated the frequency for VK2RCW ?
The next question was to be, (and was);
What frequency did the local club request and why was this one allocated ?
I ask myself; Why is Richard reacting in the way he is ?
It's a simple question. Who made the allocation and why did they chose that frequency.
So I pose another Question; Did you allocate it Richard ?
The next question is why am I asking and not somebody else. I'm not a member of the local club.
The answer is because some people feel too intimidated or embarrassed to ask. I'm not.
That is one reason. The other is that I've seen similar allocations made in the past and silent grumbles have been made about those too. I'm not one of those people.
All I am doing is asking who made the allocation and why ?
Now if that question embarrasses somebody then that is just going to raise more questions.
What's to be embarrassed about ?
All I'm doing is looking at the process so that when somebody complains in the future I can say explain why.
Who requested or allocated the frequency for VK2RCW ?
The next question was to be, (and was);
What frequency did the local club request and why was this one allocated ?
I ask myself; Why is Richard reacting in the way he is ?
It's a simple question. Who made the allocation and why did they chose that frequency.
So I pose another Question; Did you allocate it Richard ?
The next question is why am I asking and not somebody else. I'm not a member of the local club.
The answer is because some people feel too intimidated or embarrassed to ask. I'm not.
That is one reason. The other is that I've seen similar allocations made in the past and silent grumbles have been made about those too. I'm not one of those people.
All I am doing is asking who made the allocation and why ?
Now if that question embarrasses somebody then that is just going to raise more questions.
What's to be embarrassed about ?
All I'm doing is looking at the process so that when somebody complains in the future I can say explain why.
Re: VK2RCW
Trash,
Your question was asked & answered. And no, if I made the assignment recommendation why would I go to the ACMA database to see what you were referring to? So no I didn't make the assignment... but even if I did I wouldn't have done anything wrong!
Take my advice & contact the ACMA or the WIA office. I'm done answering your questions. Your whole argument against the assignment in my view is nonsense. If the licensee wishes to complain I would be happy to explain the technical reasons for it being nonsense, alternately they can contact ACMA or the WIA office.
Richard
VK2AAH
Your question was asked & answered. And no, if I made the assignment recommendation why would I go to the ACMA database to see what you were referring to? So no I didn't make the assignment... but even if I did I wouldn't have done anything wrong!
Take my advice & contact the ACMA or the WIA office. I'm done answering your questions. Your whole argument against the assignment in my view is nonsense. If the licensee wishes to complain I would be happy to explain the technical reasons for it being nonsense, alternately they can contact ACMA or the WIA office.
Richard
VK2AAH
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VK4DU
Re: VK2RCW
More importantly, why do we need another 2m repeater in Orange, when FRED (146.7) has been there for years?
Re: VK2RCW
Definitely no argument from me on that one... but there is nothing to prevent someone from applying for it. I'm not sure why they want to put it where it is licenced.
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VK2JDS
- Forum Diehard
- Posts: 432
- Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:17 am
- Location: qf46pv nsw central tablelands
- Contact:
Re: VK2RCW
Richard, you clearly arent in touch with propagation in this region.
the clashing frequencies are causing problems for any station on a high spot around orange, especially in the morning.
Your comments to Ashley are offensive.
if you dont have a constructive reply to add then please dont add anything.
the town repeater application has been in the works for years and spans 2 regional clubs. Mt Canobolas repeater doesnt give good coverage in orange town area, its to the south, hence the local club repeater construction.
the allocation seems to be based on a 'one size fits all' narrow minded paper-shuffler approach instead of some proper technical thought.
the sooner the problem is rectified the better.
Dave vk2jds
the clashing frequencies are causing problems for any station on a high spot around orange, especially in the morning.
Your comments to Ashley are offensive.
if you dont have a constructive reply to add then please dont add anything.
the town repeater application has been in the works for years and spans 2 regional clubs. Mt Canobolas repeater doesnt give good coverage in orange town area, its to the south, hence the local club repeater construction.
the allocation seems to be based on a 'one size fits all' narrow minded paper-shuffler approach instead of some proper technical thought.
the sooner the problem is rectified the better.
Dave vk2jds
Re: VK2RCW
Dave,
I am very familiar with Needle Mountain's coverage and in this case it has nothing to do with the issue. A repeater licence does not provide protection from another service beyond a certain distance. The general rule is about 100km, but alot of latitude is given to many amateur services to take that to 150km. It is totally unreasonable to expect that a frequency should not be reused at over 200km- regardless of the height of the other service.
The options are very clear if people choose to be sensible about it. You can seek a new assignment- in which case an email to the ACMA & WIA office would get things rolling. The other is fitting CTCSS to the new service- because given that it is licenced in town the projected coverage area should be local. If CTCSS is fitted within a reasonable distance the signal strength of the local base will be stronger than the Needle Mountain site. Once you move out of the town you would switch across to Canobolas (based on what you wrote). And please understand that I have had many years experience in managing frequency reuse issues- what you describe is nothing new to me.
I am happy to help the licensee- so long as people are honest & sensible about things. Like most people I get ticked off when someone misrepresents the facts.
Cheers,
Richard
VK2AAH
I am very familiar with Needle Mountain's coverage and in this case it has nothing to do with the issue. A repeater licence does not provide protection from another service beyond a certain distance. The general rule is about 100km, but alot of latitude is given to many amateur services to take that to 150km. It is totally unreasonable to expect that a frequency should not be reused at over 200km- regardless of the height of the other service.
The options are very clear if people choose to be sensible about it. You can seek a new assignment- in which case an email to the ACMA & WIA office would get things rolling. The other is fitting CTCSS to the new service- because given that it is licenced in town the projected coverage area should be local. If CTCSS is fitted within a reasonable distance the signal strength of the local base will be stronger than the Needle Mountain site. Once you move out of the town you would switch across to Canobolas (based on what you wrote). And please understand that I have had many years experience in managing frequency reuse issues- what you describe is nothing new to me.
I am happy to help the licensee- so long as people are honest & sensible about things. Like most people I get ticked off when someone misrepresents the facts.
Cheers,
Richard
VK2AAH
Re: VK2RCW
Dave,
Could I also add that I've spent the past 30 minutes looking at the alternatives listed in Trash's email and, with the exception of the ones that have no services listed, the others are far worse in terms of reuse distances & protection to the existing service. My view is that the frequency allocated is the best of a limited range available.
Richard
VK2AAH
Could I also add that I've spent the past 30 minutes looking at the alternatives listed in Trash's email and, with the exception of the ones that have no services listed, the others are far worse in terms of reuse distances & protection to the existing service. My view is that the frequency allocated is the best of a limited range available.
Richard
VK2AAH
Re: VK2RCW
A number of them are affected by a high power wide band service (130kF3E @ 120WpY) but there may be a chance with one of the others- they should contact the WIA to discuss.
Richard
VK2AAH
Richard
VK2AAH