VK Logger Ham Radio Forum Archive

If anyone is interested, the cardinia council building regulation to towers/antennas is as follows:

Thank you for your recent enquiry, which related to building permit requirements for construction of an antenna. In this regard I have included an extract from schedule 8 of Building Regulations 2006 which provides building permit exemptions that apply to antenna .

Column 1 Column 2 Column 3
Item Description of building or building work exempted from building permit and occupancy permit Building regulations that building or building work exempted from
13 Any mast, pole, antenna, aerial or similar Class 10b structure—
(a) attached to a building and which does not exceed a height of 3m above the highest point of the attachment to the building; or
(b) not attached to a building and which does not exceed a height of 8m.

8m! That is getting a bit low for efficient communication on most bands, and it increases the liklihood of interference both into, and from the station.

The WIA spent a lot of time and effort to get the power limit lifted to 1KW - something that will only really benefit a small proportion of hams who can meet EMR requirements.

Maybe the the time and effort should have been spent on lobbying for a reasonable nation-wide height limit for antennas. Not being able to errect an effective antenna because of height restrictions is a common cause of people giving up on AR.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

Oh mine WILL be 8M... during the day......

VK3LAJ wrote:If anyone is interested, the cardinia council building regulation to towers/antennas is as follows:

Thank you for your recent enquiry, which related to building permit requirements for construction of an antenna. In this regard I have included an extract from schedule 8 of Building Regulations 2006 which provides building permit exemptions that apply to antenna .

Column 1 Column 2 Column 3
Item Description of building or building work exempted from building permit and occupancy permit Building regulations that building or building work exempted from
13 Any mast, pole, antenna, aerial or similar Class 10b structure—
(a) attached to a building and which does not exceed a height of 3m above the highest point of the attachment to the building; or
(b) not attached to a building and which does not exceed a height of 8m.

Very surprised at 8M , I was under the impression 10 was the accepted std , might be time for a check and challenge ?

Read the forum here of someone who had a 13m tower and was told it had to be no more than 10m capable.

To have the capability to go 13m was not allowed.

But 8m? In that case I'd strap something to your roof and go for 3m above the apex - that's probably higher above ground.

But how come people can get away with huge roof-mounted masts if it has a TV antenna on the top? I have seen 12m+ masts on rooftops here with a TV antenna on the top.

73 - Rob VK2GOM / GW0MOH

Some clarifications required here. A number of you are not reading this properly.
Firstly, State Regulation, not Council's.
NO permit required under the 8m, the 3m. "Exempted from building permit"
Anything required HIGHER than those specified,( the 8m, the 3m ) means you APPLY for a permit( & if structurally sound ) you receive a Permit to go higher.
Additional to this Town Planning considerations come into play. That's where you neighbours determine your future.
Russ VK3ART

Exactly , no permit required under 8, nothing about capable..
8 is better than 0

i would do a search on the vcat site i did and no permit needed as an ham ant is considered to be part of the enjoyment of your property worked in yarra ranges

But Amateur mast must be structurally sound, Roger. Building Regs. greater than 8m / 3m etc..
Town Planning in your Municipality may be different.
To all; if a tower or mast falls that required a Permit ( night or day ! ) your insurer maybe entitled not to pay for your or your neighbour's house damage & injury.
Russ VK3ART

But an Amateur mast / tower must be structurally sound, Roger. Building Regs. greater than 8m / 3m etc..
Town Planning in your Municipality may be different.
To all; if a tower or mast falls that required a Permit ( night or day ! ) your insurer maybe entitled not to pay for your or your neighbour's house damage & injury.
Russ VK3ART

I wont be skimping on a cheap tower, i plan on going a proper nally.. with massive foundations

Hi Russ

your insurer maybe entitled not to pay for your or your neighbour's house damage & injury.

What would the insurance situation be if the mast was permit exempt - in this case <8m high?

73

Wayne VK4WDM

8m height is plenty high enough (for VHF UHF) as long as your antenna can see over any near by obstructions such as other houses and trees.

8m height is plenty high enough (for VHF UHF)

Not everyone wants to confine their activities to 2m and above.

8m height is very marginal for 6m (I know, that is the height of my current 6m yagi) and a 20m yagi needs to be at half wavelength height if it is going to provide low angle radiation.

The good news is that horizontal loops do work well at 8m height. Mine is cut for 40m and works on all bands from 40-6m.

But as the old saying goes "any antenna is better than no antenna"

73

Wayne VK4WDM

VK4WDM wrote:

8m height is plenty high enough (for VHF UHF)

Not everyone wants to confine their activities to 2m and above.

8m height is very marginal for 6m (I know, that is the height of my current 6m yagi) and a 20m yagi needs to be at half wavelength height if it is going to provide low angle radiation.

The good news is that horizontal loops do work well at 8m height. Mine is cut for 40m and works on all bands from 40-6m.

But as the old saying goes "any antenna is better than no antenna"

73

Wayne VK4WDM

As for 8m being marginal for 6m, from a real world/practical perspective I have to disagree. I have 2 modest 6el LFAs, 1/2 wavelength apart, with the centrepoint being at about 7m. The height and spacing suggest that I'm wasting my time....those that know me or have worked me know this is not the case.

Nonetheless, I agree in principle that "the higher the better" but many of us for whatever reason are stuck in urban/suburban areas and are at the whim of draconian council by-laws etc.

As for the 2nd highlighted text from Wayne, can't argue that HI!

[quoteThe height and spacing suggest that I'm wasting my time][/quote]

Hi Andy

No, no! I would not suggest you are wasting your time at all.

I don't think that height makes much of a difference on Es and very high beams may in fact be a hinderance on troppo - I remember rushing up Mt Wellington in Hobart during a 2m opening only to find that the signals were much better at home at 20m above sea level. At my previous QTH I had a 6m beam at 18m and another one at 12m. Sometimes the lower one was better.

I think that you will agree that on long haul 6m DX when signals are weak, 8m height would be marginal, but having said that, a lot of the European 6m stations I worked last cycle were in situations just like we are discussing now with low height limits. I had an eyeball contact with one of them last time I was in Switzerland. He has a 6m yagi (admittedly a long one) only a metre above the peak of his single story house. When I worked him in 1999 it was S9 both ways.

Unfortunately we do have to live with height laws, and as hams have always done, we have to adapt and operate smarter

73

Wayne VK4WDM

Hi Andy,

Victorian state regs give you the go ahead, as previously stated, for a free standing structure of max 8 m or a structure attached to the building which is less than 3 m above the building height WITHOUT any additional approval from council.

If the proposed structure, such as a free-standing 13.7 m Nally, exceeds these specs, then you need to apply for a "Report and Consent" to your council. This requires that you need your neighbours to add their comments/approval/objections to the appropriate form that describes the proposed "development".

However, VCAT has consistently held that a "radio mast" of less than 14 m height for the purposes of amateur radio is exempt from separate planning approval as it is a normal part of a hobby activity normally associated with occupancy of a domestic dwelling (my rough recollection of the gist of the rulings). See the VCAT case ruling "Maciszewski v Casey CC [2003] VCAT 402 (10 April 2003)". You still need to go through the "Report and Consent" process, and I would attach a copy of the Maciswewski ruling to the paperwork that you submit to council, just to make sure that council does not attempt to come the raw prawn. If you want to go for something higher, then a full planning permit is likely to be required. The other hint is to simply to apply for the "radio mast", not the antennas that will be mounted on the mast - reason - they are all experimental and therefore "temporary" additions.....

Amateur Radio Victoria is helpful if you need further assistance.

I am about to go through the same hassles here......

Good luck,

Peter VK3PF

To Wayne VK4WDM,
Suggest everyone seek their own Legal Advice for their own situation. Comment below is my personal view only, should not be relied upon.

Q. If the antenna mast does not need a permit, what is the insurance and liability situation if it falls down?

A. If anything you own or are responsible for, fails due to your own deemed, negligence or failure to provide a duty of care, (eg lack of maintenance ) you could be found liable. If you have no knowledge of apparent weaknesses, your insurance should pay. Even more so if say a sound condition tower comes down in a major windstorm. Check with them.

Russ VK3ART

VCAT case ruling or not ( Planning Approval ), Building Permit still required above 8m/3m in Vic. Insurance Policy conditions require compliance will all necessary Permits.

Russ,

I agree - above 8 m (or 3 m above roof line), then a building permit IS required. You will not get one unless you go through the Council Report & Consent process, including paying the appropriate fee to council, plus the fee to the building surveyor.

I dropped the paperwork to the local permit issuer some time ago, and visited my closest neighbour, explained what I was proposing and gave them the paperwork. Requested that they complete the paperwork and return to me (sealed if they wished) or send to council and advise me that they had taken that action. Result: Nothing!

I am about to try again.....

Regards,

Peter VK3PF

VK2KRR wrote:8m height is plenty high enough (for VHF UHF) as long as your antenna can see over any near by obstructions such as other houses and trees.

The big issue here is meeting EMR requirements. 10m minimum if you want to run a decent sized yagi(s) and power.