There have been a couple of recent threads that have flagged as a side issue to the main topic, that we should be lobbying for access to more spectrum or "bands."
So what should we be asking for? I don't want this to be a "kid in a lolly shop" or "Santa's wish list." What I am looking for is a sane, sound and expertly argued case based on the following:
How will access to this new spectrum?
1. Enhance our communication. 2. Enhance our experimental activities and add to the knowledge-base. 3. Enhance our enjoyment of our hobby. 4. Have a reasonable chance of success given the demand for spectrum by other users.
Importantly. We will not deal with the argument for an expanded 6m band because that is already being dealt with in other threads.
Listen carefully to what others are saying and debate in a reasonable way please. I am hoping this will be the basis of a working document that could be used by the WIA in their lobbying activities and/or an article in AR.
73
Wayne VK4WDM
What new bands should we ask for?
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
I think the obvious starters are 5Mhz and 70Mhz.
Hams in more and more countries are being given access to these two bands.
Hams in more and more countries are being given access to these two bands.
Alan VK3DXE
QF21nv
QF21nv
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VK4WDM
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
And the arguments are? "Just because others have them" is really not going to get us very far.the obvious starters are 5Mhz and 70Mhz.
73
Wayne VK4WDM
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
At the present rate we will be lucky to keep the present bands. Have a listen to 2 metres while you are in the country then listen to the adjacent commercial frequencies. I also understand that we may have lost a third of 70 cm ? Is this true ?
73 Andy
VK3AS
73 Andy
VK3AS
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VK1VMA
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
900MHz (33cm).
902-915 is out of the question due to that being a mobile phone base station uplink segment, and the rest of 900MHz is in high demand with commercial and government users, but how about sharing 915-928 with the ISM band, as we already do on 13cm? As I understand it, New Zealand already has access to 921-928MHz.
Most if not all of the ISM activity on this band uses spread spectrum modes with which we have little risk of causing significant interference. The band has no value in terms of licensing revenue. The cost to open this band for amateur use would be that of the relevant stroke of a pen by ACMA.
Friends over in the States tell me this 33cm can be a bit QRM heavy in urban areas (though over there most ISM gear tends to hang around the bottom of the band; the top of the band tends to be fine), but from mountain tops with horizontal polarisation or out in the country in the absence of cordless phones and the like, it's perfectly usable.
902-915 is out of the question due to that being a mobile phone base station uplink segment, and the rest of 900MHz is in high demand with commercial and government users, but how about sharing 915-928 with the ISM band, as we already do on 13cm? As I understand it, New Zealand already has access to 921-928MHz.
Most if not all of the ISM activity on this band uses spread spectrum modes with which we have little risk of causing significant interference. The band has no value in terms of licensing revenue. The cost to open this band for amateur use would be that of the relevant stroke of a pen by ACMA.
Friends over in the States tell me this 33cm can be a bit QRM heavy in urban areas (though over there most ISM gear tends to hang around the bottom of the band; the top of the band tends to be fine), but from mountain tops with horizontal polarisation or out in the country in the absence of cordless phones and the like, it's perfectly usable.
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
Yes it's true.VK3AS wrote:At the present rate we will be lucky to keep the present bands. Have a listen to 2 metres while you are in the country then listen to the adjacent commercial frequencies. I also understand that we may have lost a third of 70 cm ? Is this true ?
73 Andy
VK3AS
http://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2 ... /index.php
Lou - VK3ALB
Being right doesn't excuse bad behaviour
Being right doesn't excuse bad behaviour
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VK4WDM
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
"How about using our current bands ? !" Quite true, but this is different argument.
There are certainly things we could do communication and experiment wise, on spectrum that we don't yet have access to.
From my experience with a 5MHZ network in PNG, it has some very interesting propagation that make it a very useful for short or medium range daytime use (including emergency communications) and it is very easy to get gear for - just whack the appropiate crystal into any number of older land mobile or marine transceivers (And before we go off on an "is this legal tangent", the answer directly from a telephone conversation with an RI, is yes. There is absolutely no problem with converting such equipment for ham band use. The problem is when ham band equipment is used on bands that require "type approved" equipment).
What about extension of the 80m band to cover 3.7 to 3.9MHZ. I was looking though one of my old logbooks from my days as ZL1AZP and it is full of dx worked on the upper end of the 80m band, especially from the Americas. In VK, the dx is crammed into the tiny "dx window" that appears to be dominated by the "big dxers."
73
Wayne VK4WDM
There are certainly things we could do communication and experiment wise, on spectrum that we don't yet have access to.
From my experience with a 5MHZ network in PNG, it has some very interesting propagation that make it a very useful for short or medium range daytime use (including emergency communications) and it is very easy to get gear for - just whack the appropiate crystal into any number of older land mobile or marine transceivers
(And before we go off on an "is this legal tangent", the answer directly from a telephone conversation with an RI, is yes. There is absolutely no problem with converting such equipment for ham band use. The problem is when ham band equipment is used on bands that require "type approved" equipment).What about extension of the 80m band to cover 3.7 to 3.9MHZ. I was looking though one of my old logbooks from my days as ZL1AZP and it is full of dx worked on the upper end of the 80m band, especially from the Americas. In VK, the dx is crammed into the tiny "dx window" that appears to be dominated by the "big dxers."
73
Wayne VK4WDM
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VK2XSO
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
70MHz. I don't care so much for in terms of RF but equipment for this band would interface nicely with other surplus microwave converters.
70MHz is a common IF. 140MHz is not as common but that equipment interfaces nicely with 2m radios.
VK1VMA already mentioned 33cm band is a possibility.
In ITU Region 3, New Zealand domestically allocates 921 MHz to 928 MHz to amateurs.
In Australia 915MHz to 935MHz is not associated with mobile phones.
50cm Band. Getting that back would be good, especially with the ch35 TV channel.
11m band. This one is interesting because it could easily be shared with CB.
The use of unlicensed CB would remain with stock standard 40cm type approved CB's but the rest of 11m down to 26.3MHz or there abouts could be used for amateur radio.
There are a few small exceptions. HF marine channels could be excluded or just have them allocated as secondary amateur.
The advantage is that they will get a lot more monitoring from sensible people and this will also increase the popularity of HF marine with boat users and help take the pressure off VHF and the current problems they have been having.
Adding FM to HF CB and HF Marine might also go some way to solving problems at VHF and UHF.
In reality I don't expect the ACMA to do anything sensible, realistic or fantastic.
They haven't had much of a reputation lately for improving amateur services.
70MHz is a common IF. 140MHz is not as common but that equipment interfaces nicely with 2m radios.
VK1VMA already mentioned 33cm band is a possibility.
In ITU Region 3, New Zealand domestically allocates 921 MHz to 928 MHz to amateurs.
In Australia 915MHz to 935MHz is not associated with mobile phones.
50cm Band. Getting that back would be good, especially with the ch35 TV channel.
11m band. This one is interesting because it could easily be shared with CB.
The use of unlicensed CB would remain with stock standard 40cm type approved CB's but the rest of 11m down to 26.3MHz or there abouts could be used for amateur radio.
There are a few small exceptions. HF marine channels could be excluded or just have them allocated as secondary amateur.
The advantage is that they will get a lot more monitoring from sensible people and this will also increase the popularity of HF marine with boat users and help take the pressure off VHF and the current problems they have been having.
Adding FM to HF CB and HF Marine might also go some way to solving problems at VHF and UHF.
In reality I don't expect the ACMA to do anything sensible, realistic or fantastic.
They haven't had much of a reputation lately for improving amateur services.
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
Hi all,
I agree that the first thing that we need to do is to use our existing bands. It might be useful to actually keep a log of contacts, especially for the microwave bands, so that we can use the evidence to help build an argument to keep the bands.
Everyone should be aware that we will need any new bands to be allocated to the amateur service via the ITU WARC processes.
As other threads have pointed out, we need to have the new allocations to come through the processes here in VK so that we can gain access to the 479 kHz band. Hopefully the revision of the LCD will include that band, as well as a tidy up of restrictions on 6 m.
Personally, I would like to see us working for primary allocations (where possible) for each of the bands where we are currently secondary to other services.
Let us consolidate our current bands if we can, before we go asking for additional bands.
Regards,
Peter VK3PF
I agree that the first thing that we need to do is to use our existing bands. It might be useful to actually keep a log of contacts, especially for the microwave bands, so that we can use the evidence to help build an argument to keep the bands.
Everyone should be aware that we will need any new bands to be allocated to the amateur service via the ITU WARC processes.
As other threads have pointed out, we need to have the new allocations to come through the processes here in VK so that we can gain access to the 479 kHz band. Hopefully the revision of the LCD will include that band, as well as a tidy up of restrictions on 6 m.
Personally, I would like to see us working for primary allocations (where possible) for each of the bands where we are currently secondary to other services.
Let us consolidate our current bands if we can, before we go asking for additional bands.
Regards,
Peter VK3PF
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VK4DU
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
Spot on.VK3PF wrote:
Let us consolidate our current bands if we can, before we go asking for additional bands.
Regards,
Peter VK3PF
We do not use what we have now.
It is now 1725 in Australia's largest city. I am scanning every 2m and 70cm repeater in the greater Sydney area.
There is NO activity....
NONE.
How can we justify all this spectrum, when commercial land mobile allocations in Sydney are just about exhausted....?
We can not.
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VK5PO
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
What a needless forum topic..........
We are LUCKY to have the spectrum space we have access to now.
Commercial interests would undoubtedly love to get their hands on some of it. (UHF/SHF)
More revenue for the federal government, so in reality, Let us maintain and USE
the current allocations.
Seasons Greetings.
John, VK5PO
We are LUCKY to have the spectrum space we have access to now.
Commercial interests would undoubtedly love to get their hands on some of it. (UHF/SHF)
More revenue for the federal government, so in reality, Let us maintain and USE
the current allocations.
Seasons Greetings.
John, VK5PO
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
if we can keep all the bands we have now and get them as primary would be great the only other thing i would like to see is may be higher power out puts may be up to 1 kw on hf and 500w above only my thoughts please dont shoot me down this is my first reply but would be interested in replys vk5ath
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
Check your scan set up. I was calling P25 on Carlingford.VK4DU wrote:VK3PF wrote:
......
It is now 1725 in Australia's largest city. I am scanning every 2m and 70cm repeater in the greater Sydney area.
There is NO activity....
NONE.
How can we justify all this spectrum, when commercial land mobile allocations in Sydney are just about exhausted....?
We can not.
Compton
VK2HRX
QF56ne, Ryde, Sydney
VK2HRX
QF56ne, Ryde, Sydney
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VK2XQ
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
I wouldn't mind a lash at 5MHz and also 70MHz which many overseas now enjoy, especially 70MHz, it would be a very interesting DX band.
Actually both of those bands would be a very interesting challenge.
Jack Haden VK2XQ (QF-56ne)
Actually both of those bands would be a very interesting challenge.
Jack Haden VK2XQ (QF-56ne)
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
Let me play opposing negotiator...
So you would like a few MHz at 70Mhz & 220MHz? How about I give you those & take 440-450MHz off you & allocate that to land mobile (emergency services) to replace the 900MHz links they have lost to LTE?
I think that is a reasonable trade! Honestly!
No service is in a weaker negotiating position than AR. It already has many MHz of unused spectrum, and pays very little per Khz/per licence holder for it. And you want to argue for more spectrum? I agree with Peter- consolidate what we already have & focus on making those primary & having any power restrictions lifted.
Cheers,
Richard
VK2AAH
So you would like a few MHz at 70Mhz & 220MHz? How about I give you those & take 440-450MHz off you & allocate that to land mobile (emergency services) to replace the 900MHz links they have lost to LTE?
I think that is a reasonable trade! Honestly!
No service is in a weaker negotiating position than AR. It already has many MHz of unused spectrum, and pays very little per Khz/per licence holder for it. And you want to argue for more spectrum? I agree with Peter- consolidate what we already have & focus on making those primary & having any power restrictions lifted.
Cheers,
Richard
VK2AAH
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VK7DR
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
Let me answer the question.....
NONE!
We are bloody lucky to have what we've got.
As others have suggested, try actually using the bands - rather than just talking to your mates on the repeater occasionally. (Oh... and wasting your time on the computer, trolling.)
NONE!
We are bloody lucky to have what we've got.
As others have suggested, try actually using the bands - rather than just talking to your mates on the repeater occasionally. (Oh... and wasting your time on the computer, trolling.)
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VK1VMA
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
440-450 will be gone within the next 10 years anyway, nothing will be received in trade.
Last edited by VK1VMA on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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VK4WDM
Re: What new bands should we ask for?
This is not a "trolling exercise." A quest for new allocations has been raised as a side issue on a couple of other important threads that resulted in "off topic" diversions to those threads. I thought it wise to raise a separate thread to explore the topic to stop these diversions.Oh... and wasting your time on the computer, trolling.)
According to the Dec AR there are already disscussions underway at an international level for a 5MHZ amateur band. 70MHZ is mostly lightly used in most parts of the world and it would be an interesting band to experiment with accross the wide expanse of Australia.
Yes, I agree with Richard, we may well have to do some horse trading to retain a chunk of 70cm, but in that band we co-share with defence and they are very keen to stay there. Perhaps the WIA and defence should get together and plan a joint submission for the retention of a shared band.
More use of existing bands? Of course that is important, more so in the VHF, UHF and microwave ones. There is certainly plenty of activity on HF. I tried very hard to find a clear frequency on 10m tonight, gave up and went to 15m when it was much the same. I just had a listen on 40m, stations, including a lot of VK's up and down the band. Lack of activity, don't think so!
Why not actively promote the use of existing bands and also look for new opportunities? Remember the time when the amateur community lobbied for the "WARC" bands - what a wonderful asset they are! Would we want to be without them now?
73
Wayne VK4WDM