What new bands should we ask for?

[VK2AAH]

Hi Wayne,

I don't think you are trolling either in raising this subject.

In terms of 70cm I don't think Defence is going to permit any services that are likely to conflict with their need for flexibility. They have a pretty good relationship with the WIA (evidenced by the way they have permitted services in their portion of 420-430 to remain there), but they also have a good relationship with emergency services. There is a demonstrated (repeat demonstrated) need for spectrum for low capacity sub-1GHz links in low density areas that are being forced out of 900MHz... AR has not demonstrated a need for ANY extra spectrum- indeed based on current use AR couldn't demonstrate the need to retain the amount of spectrum it currently occupies. If 440-450MHz came up for discussion you can be sure that there would be a number of groups (NCCGR in particular) that could argue that their use would live in harmony with Defence and still provide a greater community benefit than AR.

50-54MHz primary at 1kW... that should be the immediate goal. 5MHz is another- based on the gap it fills between the propagation of 80m & 40m.

Anything else is not justified given the number of AR operators in Australia and the current levels of activity.

Cheers,


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK4DU]

I reckon we should put community tone panels on the Sydney 2m and 70cm repeaters and lease them out to commercial services.

Given the almost complete lack of use, the amateurs would not be effected at all.

The amateurs can have their own tone....

Win, win.

[VK4DU]

There are discussions at ITU re a 5 MHz band. There is a good chance that we will get it.

However 5 MHz is used heavily by land mobile and point to point services throughout the Pacific, so we will have to be very careful with the allocations, especially in northern VK4.

[VK4WDM]

point to point services throughout the Pacific,

One of the main reasons a 5MHZ AR band has been introduced overseas is to provide a common band where AR and emergency services can easily interface.

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK4DU]

Problem is fitting in with the existing allocations.

The last thing we need is amateurs QRMing a PNG medical net.

It needs very careful coordination.

Particularly at night.

[VK4WDM]

The last thing we need is amateurs QRMing a PNG medical net.

Absolutely right, I was involved in those nets for years but their frequencies are well defined. I still listen to them from time to time. They are already frequently QRMed by Asian broadcasters at night.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK3AIF]

My gut feeling is that Defence as a whole is fairly happy with the current arrangements with the 430 to 450 MHz segment and headed off ACMAs grab for it a few years ago and reluctantly conceded the bottom 10 MHz of it after segments of it were temporarily withdrawn from Amateur use for the "period of the Sydney Olympics" but I think they will be against any Amateur allocation in the overcrowded 5MHz band.

I recall that there was a proposal a few years ago to try and get 3.5 through 3.8MHz as a continuous allocation and by far the majority of the licensed users there did not have any difficulty with that but the Vic, as well as maybe one or two other Police forces were the main stumbling block and were unmovable on the subject. I don't spend a lot of time monitoring the area between the 80 and 75 M bands but I have never heard them use it at all. The SES has an allocation or two in there as well from memory.

I apologise that this has not done anything constructive for the topic raised and while it would certainly be nice to have a bit more spectrum to play with maybe we should be fairly realistic and try and tidy up what we have a bit re 6M and concentrate on one or other particular new segment??

[VK4DU]

Good points, however Defence will ultimately do as they are told. If that means giving up bits of 420-430, so be it.

The 5 MHz allocation is dependent on sharing studies - this is a classic ITU delaying tactic.

I have read all the ITU papers on the 5 MHz issue - the Russians are very opposed to an amateur allocation, as they use 5 MHz a lot internally.

5 MHz was shot down at the last WRC, and I would not be surprised if it took until the next WRC for an allocation, if ever.

I'm wary of a 5 MHz allocation in the Pacific, as per my posts above. The amateur and land mobile service can be very difficult to mix together.

There is no way that the PNG National Health Services Radio Network (with 1200 stations, spread across the country) will shift frequency to accommodate amateurs.

And they should not be expected to.

73
Glenn VK4DU

[VK4WDM]

Hi Glenn

As I said, I have personal experience with the PNG health services network and I agree that great care would need to be taken to avoid any problems with QRM, but is is the very success of that network that shows how useful a 5MHZ AR allocation could be in a country like Australia where we have that huge gap between the 80m and 40m bands neither of which provide reliable communication during daylight hours for portable, mobile, or emergency communications.

My reading on the subject is not as extensive as yours, but my impression is that that hams would be expected to get are some crystal-locked channels with a restricted power limit similar to what some hams have access to now.

A similar argument was mounted against a 10MHZ allocation - that it would interfere with land mobile and aeromobile services but there have been no problems that I know of with 30m.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK8VTX]

i would like to see 70 MHz (4m) in Australia, as it's a interesting band for DX like 6m is

[VK4DU]

The problem is Wayne that the amateurs are pushing for a band of 200 kHz from 250 to 450....not spot channels.

I was the PNG network designer and project manager, hence my close interest.

73
Glenn

[VK3XRI]

I say bring us in line with other areas , bring on 70mhz it's rarely used by commercial operators now and a great band to play with , also the other higher bands like 900mhz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VK1VMA]

Good points, however Defence will ultimately do as they are told. If that means giving up bits of 420-430, so be it.

Defence had no trouble hanging on to 380-400MHz when the question of that band going into emergency services use arose, as much of the activity found in this band is very incompatible with other services (in particular satellite communications and UAV control), as well as planned future NCW systems.

If Defence are told to relinquish the band, it won't be ACMA who tells them so. An exceptionally compelling case for them to surrender the whole segment would probably need to be made to the PM. Otherwise, they'll continue to use the well defined segments of that band that they use alongside existing services.

[VK4DU]

True. But if they are told to, they will have to move. If there is enough pressure on them from emergency services....

The days of defence simply saying NO with zero justification are gone.

[VK2AAH]

I say bring us in line with other areas , bring on 70mhz it's rarely used by commercial operators now and a great band to play with , also the other higher bands like 900mhz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That is a rational argument... not. Yep, let the hams have as much spectrum as they want so they can "play" with it. People want to portray the WIA as being out of touch but then we get this kind of logic. Spectrum is not anybody's to "play with". Have you got a use for it? If you have, what is it? Explain what the new spectrum could achieve that the existing spectrum doesn't. If you can't answer those questions rationally then please don't waste the ACMA's time making amateur radio operators appear a laughing stock.

Cheers,

Richard
VK2AAH

[VK3AIF]

True. But if they are told to, they will have to move. If there is enough pressure on them from emergency services....

The days of defence simply saying NO with zero justification are gone.

My take on it is that Defence has a lot of systems that cannot readily be moved from segment to segment willy nilly, we are not talking voice traffic here but some pretty hi-tech stuff and they have to try and maintain systems that are compatible with our allies and the other services under the defence umbrella. It is unlikely that they would be told anything by a much lesser department such as the ACMA. Their satellite and radar systems have to be usable pretty much world wide in the case of Navy and Air Force and to stick to international convention to avoid being mistaken as an enemy in overseas operations so the ACMA must have put up a pretty compelling case to have Defence agree to relinquish what they did.

[VK4DU]

That is true to a certain extent. But they also have lots of under used spectrum.

They just love to quote secret squirrell/war on terror when it all gets too hard.



I worked for them for many years. I know all the tricks....

[VK3AUU]

Why do we need any more bands below 1GHz anyway. We dont use what we have. Even 500 KHz on any of the VHF/UHF/SHF bands is more than we can justify with the current amateur population and our numbers are decreasing as time goes by. Lets face it, we are a dying breed.

David

[VK5ZT]

Hi all

Maybe we should ask for the "OPTICAL" bands.....


I have a feeling we will only get them as a shared service though!


Tim VK5ZT

[VK2KRR]

Just to add my view.

I agree with some of the other comments. There is no where near enough activity on the bands we currently have to even think about looking for other band segments.
Its boring enough as it is just having to listen to beacons all day in most cases.