TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

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VK2XQ

TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK2XQ »

Well, the Icom IC-736 has totally crapped itself, so looking at a new radio, there isn't much in the way of a decent secondhand radio (that does well on 50MHz) about so after a look at the budget and a meeting with the Minister for Social Services and Fiscal Policy (the better half) it has been deemed a new radio maybe procured.

I am not into the fancy radio's that have mega screens and hundreds of buttons (most of which I will either never use or understand), just something simple to use and practical enough to work DX on six without a heap of hoopla to go with it. A half decent radio on CW is a must, not interested in coupling up computers or other gizmos either.

After nearly two hours on the net early today, (I looked at Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu) I have decided on two transceivers: Yaesu FT-950 or Kenwood TS-590S. Both are modest and simple to use without paying for loads of things I will never use etc. I took the time to Google both of these brands and spent quite some time reading personal opinions and reports on both sets from around the world. Now it is time for some input from the local lads in Oceania, as I am sure some of you will own one of these radio's and either love them, or hate them. Anyone used them on 52MHz FM? I love FM when the band is wide open.

The comments below were sourced from radio chat sites, mostly in the UK, USA and parts of Europe about these two radio's.

Yaesu FT-950 HF/50MHz:

Audio is crap, tinny and "hollow" sounding.

CW QSK relays clatters, most annoying.

AGC is far too agressive.

Too many "menu" protocols, should be more simple.

Top radio, enjoy it very much, especially on six.

Good all rounder for price.

Toss up between the FT-950 and the Kenwood TS-590S, glad I bought the Yaesu!

Most others said it was a top radio for the price you pay and they were more than happy with the FT-950...



Kenwood TS-590S HF/50MHz:

Low power output issues on SSB.

ALC overshoot problems.

Mobile mic will not "drive" on fone, you need the desk mic.

Hard to set up for 53/52MHz repeater operation and set to memory.

No clutter, great radio.

Great receiver, low noise floor.

Good audio reports on air.

Great CW radio, the best...

Excellent SSB/CW filters.

There were heaps of comments about MW and SW band listening on both radio's, not interested in that, 50MHz is the main target here, so comments on their 50MHz prowess will be read and weighed up with interest...73 de Jack VK2XQ.
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK3ALB »

How much for the IC736?
Lou - VK3ALB

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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK2JH »

Hi Jack,

How about a Yaesu FT847, covers HF, 6m, 2 & 70; all modes, 100W on 6m; easy to setup for FM repeaters on all bands; they come up on VK Ham occasionally; only problem that I have experienced is the power switch, which can be replaced easily.

Cheers,

John
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK7DR »

Most of the comments about the FT-950 are nonsense. It has the best audio capabilities of any radio out there. You just have to set it up properly. Once set up for your own use, the menus are rarely if ever used. It is a CW man's radio, with everything you need to copy down into the noise. Six metres is reasonably sensitive, but any DX man is going to use a preamp anyway. It is a nice intuitive radio, set up to remember all three sets of settings for each band and its usage. It is a very rugged, both physically and electrically. Unlike icom, it is not likely to blow up the driver stage and doesn't have a dodgy LCD display. And it doesn't cost 2k more than it is worth. Unless you want to spend huge dollars this radio is the best you can buy.

The 847 I do not know, I use an 897D for all bands and 2m DX. Is a very quiet receiver, but needs serious pre-amping on VHF bands. Audio is narrow and factory "Compressor" is a joke. I have done all the mods to mine and it is now a contender. Much more fussing with menus than with other radios, though. But this is to be expected as the space for controls on such a little "Brick" is limited. In may ways, regardless, it is probably the most useful radio you can buy, with the proviso that it is definitely not sensitive enough in its own right on VHF. I would buy one of these again if I lost everything else. Unlike the 950 it is not an SDR, although it does have a couple of useful digital audio functions and excellent CW capabilities. If I had to gripe about anything, it is the bloody "N" connector they now use for the 2 and 70 antenna. (Older rigs have 259 connectors but these also do not have the digital functions.) It's also a pity you cannot assign the HF antenna connector to 2m so that you can use 70 on the other.

I have used a TS-590 and liked it, except for the odd switching methods used by Kenwood - which is only because they do things different to Yaesu. Quiet and good receive. Audio is naturally excellent. Do not know about 6 metre performance.

Yes, I am a Yaesu man, but only because that it how it has worked out for me (ie, every other radio I've owned has been crud compared to these.)

If you want to hear properly adjusted 950 audio on the air listen to Barry VK3MBW on 3590 or myself on 3660 most nights.
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK5PJ »

Jack,
before you settle on a radio, you owe it to yourself to look at some of them that have a spectrum display in them, while you may initially discount them as "too fancy" they appear to offer the six metre operator a good tool for spotting signals other than where you are currently tuned.

While I do not have a "real radio" with this in it, the SDR I have recently bought offers it when coupled to the PC and I find it is a big plus, those that have it in their radios tell me they now do not know how they lived without it.

I am not surte how the FT950 or the TS590 fair in this respect but second hand IC756 PRO II's & III's are arround the place for reasonable money if that interests you, there are plenty on the band with them, vk5bc and vk5acy both have them (spectrum displays) and I am sure will discuss the pro's and con's if you ask.

I think my next REAL RADIO will require a spectrum display if it is to be considered.

my 2c's

Peter, vk5pj
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK6OX »

Gday Jack,

I can't make a comparison between the two radios, but I can offer some comments on the one that I DO own...the TS590S.
The following are based purely on 6m ops which is where I spend most of my time.

Low power output issues on SSB.
This is a myth...the TS590S produces full O/P on SSB. Some folks rely too much on the rig's metering which is not a true reflection of what's happening (like a number of different rigs). Like any modern rig a little bit of tailoring of functions provides the appropriate levels for quality SSB at the power levels set by the op.

ALC overshoot problems.
Again, like a number of rigs, this does occur although it does not appear to be uniform across all TS590s's that have been checked. Mine overshoots slightly (within the 1st few millisecs) but if I'm using my PA, the selectable 25mSec delay on PTT switching from the rig obviates any problems there.

Mobile mic will not "drive" on fone, you need the desk mic.
Can't really comment on this as I use a desk mike only. I suspect this comment may be related to the "low SSB power" perceived issue.

Hard to set up for 53/52MHz repeater operation and set to memory.
Not hard at all! Just requires a couple of extra button pushes to implement.

No clutter, great radio.
Absolutely!! :D

Great receiver, low noise floor.
Very much so!! The best I've experienced to date (and it seems confirmed by the very good report given by Mr. Sherwood!) :D

Good audio reports on air.
Yes, and can be tailored by use of the Tx Equalisation modes (including a user modifiable one), and processor levels (if required).

Great CW radio, the best...
Dunno about "the best" but certainly very good with the ability to null out QRM/QRN easily.

Excellent SSB/CW filters.
Yes they're very good...roofing filters are standard, not an option (something that Kenwood is good at doing).

I was fortunate enough to obtain mine at a VERY competitive price so I'm happy on a couple of fronts HI! 8)

I am a Kenwood man so I'm comfortable with the menu structure which to me is quite intuitive. Most modern rigs within a particular price range are not THAT much different in overall performance...some have extras as standard, some have features that others don't. It's up to the individual to decide what's going to satisfy him/her the most (within that price range) and at the end of the day this is what it often comes down to.

Cheers
73
Andy VK6OX

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK2XQ »

Thank you gentlemen for the comments so far, keep them coming as I will decide on Monday.

Better off going for a new radio, but thanks for the heads-up on the IC-746 and IC-756 series and FT-100, FT-897 etc.

Strictly ham was spoken to this morning, the TS-590S is out of stock but due any tick, they have the FT-950 in at a good price.

Previously I operated a TS-680S and TS-690S on six, great radio's both of them but they didn't like the low lying atolls of Micronesia and tended to get salt corrosion and dry joints after about 18 months. The IC-551 and IC-736 never were effected by the salt air.

Sorry lads, just don't like those Icom's with the "screen face" TV type fronts. They just don't "grab" me if you know what I mean, yes, they have their benefits and also detractors like anything else to do with radio.

Leaning towards the FT-650, had Yaesu most of my life on HF, dating back to my then brand new FT-200 black faced set, then to FT-101B, FT-101E, FT-101ZD, FT-901DM, FT-980, FT-ONE and ending with my still working FT-1000D. So maybe time to give Yaesu a shot on 50MHz instead of Icom and Kenwood which I have used exclusively on six in the past... :D

Someone mentioned that the seldom seen in Australia JRC HF/50MHz (Japanese made) base station was good on six too, Rudi at Emtronics used to sell them some years back.
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK6SIX »

FT 650

I had one of these years ago.

nice rig

BUT, they forgot to include a noise blanker in my rig, absolutely terrible noise blanker in the rig i had, shocking, it really was.

Have a read of this, ignore all of the USA made rigs etc and SDR rigs, look at the japanese rigs only...

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by ZL3JT »

Hello Jack, I commented earlier on the Icom 746 Pro. I have no experience with this radio, I do believe it's a good buy because you not only get HF +6m with 100w, you also get 2m all modes with 100w. The question would be, how much would one pay for a 100w 2m all mode rig these days. Yes, I know most later models of Yaesu, Icom, and Kenwood now have HF +6m. I use a Kenwood TS2000 on 6m and 2m, and it is side by side with my TS590 which I use on HF. I monitor 6m all the time with the TS2000, Great rig, but you need to be a Philadelphia lawyer to use it properly. It takes a lot of learning, compared with the TS590. Much simpler to use, although rather different than all other Kenwood radios I've had... (TS680, TS690, TS850, TS870).
In saying this, I've no doubt the Yaesu FT950 is good...I have no experience with Yaesu radios apart from the little FT100...I liked that on 6m...Indifferent for HF, easily overloaded by nearby signals. If the FT950 is like that, then it might be a problem?
Whereas the TS590 has roofing filters as standard. It also takes a bit of learning, but much easier to use than the TS2000. It's very like the Elecraft K3 to use with its buttons well marked and each has at least two functions. There's no need to dive into the menu system to change things as you operate. Primary function is marked on each button, and secondary function is marked on the face beside the button...simply great really!
Get a quote off VK3AJJ for your new radio, maybe Richard has a used one and you might save a few bob?
Cheers and beers Jack...Merry Christmas...
73 Duncan
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK6OX »

ZL3JT wrote:Hello Jack, I commented earlier on the Icom 746 Pro. I have no experience with this radio, I do believe it's a good buy because you not only get HF +6m with 100w, you also get 2m all modes with 100w. The question would be, how much would one pay for a 100w 2m all mode rig these days. Yes, I know most later models of Yaesu, Icom, and Kenwood now have HF +6m. I use a Kenwood TS2000 on 6m and 2m, and it is side by side with my TS590 which I use on HF. I monitor 6m all the time with the TS2000, Great rig, but you need to be a Philadelphia lawyer to use it properly. It takes a lot of learning, compared with the TS590. Much simpler to use, although rather different than all other Kenwood radios I've had... (TS680, TS690, TS850, TS870).
In saying this, I've no doubt the Yaesu FT950 is good...I have no experience with Yaesu radios apart from the little FT100...I liked that on 6m...Indifferent for HF, easily overloaded by nearby signals. If the FT950 is like that, then it might be a problem?
Whereas the TS590 has roofing filters as standard. It also takes a bit of learning, but much easier to use than the TS2000. It's very like the Elecraft K3 to use with its buttons well marked and each has at least two functions. There's no need to dive into the menu system to change things as you operate. Primary function is marked on each button, and secondary function is marked on the face beside the button...simply great really!
Get a quote off VK3AJJ for your new radio, maybe Richard has a used one and you might save a few bob?
Cheers and beers Jack...Merry Christmas...
73 Duncan
Hi Duncan,

I also have the TS2000 as well as the 590S and will not get rid of either! The TS2K does service on 2/70 (and b/up on 6m) whilst the 590s is pressed into duty on 6m.
When I finally decide on what HF radiators will serve me best in my urban jungle that's where the TS2K will go.

IMO Kenwood currently has the best implementation of menu/function capability on buttons of all the major players.

Sorry Jack for wandering off a bit! :oops:

Oh, one other thing....one USB cable between 590S and PC provides both audio i/o and ctrl...gone are the messy i/f cables, intermediate converters etc. 8)

Cheers
73
Andy VK6OX

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by vk1da »

Jack,
You've quoted various comments that have been made about these radios but the only indication you give as to why you chose these two models are simplicity of controls, good power on 6m and half decent cw operation.
But frankly all the radios on the market fit that bill. They all offer good operation on the various modes and none of the 100 watt radios fail to output 100 watts. Once you learn the controls they are all easy to use. You find the combination of settings that suit you and once you use the rig a few times you start to be familiar with its operation and controls. Same as buying a new car.

We generally don't know the experience levels or abilities of some people commenting on radios, especially in foreign websites, so those comments can't really be taken as directly relevant to you. There is no indication, for example, as to whether any of those complainers ever read the manual or gave any thought to the setup recommendations in it. What brand of power meter did they use, was it a peak reading type or were they saying AH in the mike and expecting 100 watts on an ordinary swr meter. Did they have the correct load on the transmitter? If we don't know how their tests were conducted we can't rely on their conclusions or comments. There is a wide range of abilities among radio hams, if you get my meaning.

So, to just confirm your selection of those two radios as the most suitable for your needs, here are a few things that would be criteria for me, in no particular order. I would make a list of them and tick off each radio I was considering, and see which models gave the most ticks. Such as: price level, menu complexity, colour of backlight, brand, inbuilt power supply, cw filters not required as dsp already does it, roofing filters available vs built-in, ability to receive on 136 khz, AM bandwidth available, vox and qsk with digital delay so relays are not hot switching, cw compatible with either LSB or USB, ATU built in, USB connection, monitor facility, tailorable Tx freq response, tunable CW sidetone and offset, automatic cw tuning, band stacking memories, tunable memories, dual vfos, selectable tuning rates. Modes like digital AFSK, FM. Separate antenna connections for HF and 6m, or just two antenna sockets you can use for any band like the 736. Digital input, digital band outputs, amplifier control. Portability. weight and size. Ability to run on lower power to reduce battery drain. Attractiveness of the display and ergonomics (I don't like the look of the 857 but apparently you get used to those buttons around the vfo knob, cool).

"Must not have a big screen on the front" seems to be one criterion for you, so how big are the screens on the TS590 and FT950, cf the icom 756 and others? Why does a big screen not work for you? What data on the screen is not useful? How is your eyesight, could a big screen actually help you (it would for me)? Have you used these radios, especially your selected two, or are you selecting off brochures? Test drive if you can!

And how important are each of these factors? Which ones are mandatory?

Good luck.

oh and if you are throwing the 736 out I would like it for the parts. :)
Andrew Davis VK1DA Canberra, VK2UH Yass
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK2XQ »

Going to look at a secondhand FT-2000D this week, fellow in Sydney has one on the market in good shape with little use with power supply included, had a good blab on the phone, I know him too and also I know he looks after anything he has.

So will head over to his place and have a gander, price is negotiable too. Also plan to do further reading on the FT-2000D as some of them had receiver shut downs and pre amp 1 & 2 stage failures too. Certain batch of serial numbers were troublesome, so will be looking at that issue.

As mentioned, everyone has an opinion and likes/dislikes on no matter what radio you refer to, all boils down to personal choice I guess and what you are prepared to pay in $$$ terms. I did consider boxing the IC-736 up and sending it to Melbourne for a total overhaul, but the high labour costs and parts for a radio that age may become a liability so best to move on I think. Thank you team for all your comments and suggestions....Jack.
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK3ALB »

Jack,

I'm interested in your 736. Please email me radio@ozemail.com.au
Lou - VK3ALB

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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK4WTN »

Hi Jack, I'd like to second Andy VK6OXs comments on the TS590. I have had my TS590 radio for about 18 months and I cannot fault it. It has a very good receiver on 6 meters comes with all the filters included and when you have a look on the various forums apart from a blown rx fuse on some earlier production line radios which Kenwood quickly fixed there is absolutly no sign of electronic failure with these radios.For the price that a new TS590 sells for with I think 2 years warrenty why would anyone buy an older second hand radio. i am still discovering new things with these radios especially using them on digital modes using the USB connection to my small computer. On CW they are very good. I think buying a new TS590 is a no brainer.
I think some of the negative feedback on some forums has been the case of some people falling over themselves to find problems that are just not there. I think that buying a TS590 at the price they are selling at is a no brainer.
If you need any othder information about them Jack give my a call on 07 41289571 anytime
Hope you enjoy what ever radio you end up buying
regards Wayne VK4WTN
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK2XQ »

The Icom IC-736 will be put back together whilst I decide what to do with it, was considering sending it to Melbourne for a major overhaul. Peter VK2DYN has expressed interest in having a go at repairing it too, he and I go back many years and live only a few streets apart. So, will make a decision on it in the new year, no hurry at the present. If Peter changes his mind will draw a name from the hat from those who have expressed interest in it.
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK5IR »

Hi Jack

Out of interest, what radio did you end up buying?

Theo
VK5MTM.
73
Theo
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by ZL1RS »

Bob, ZL1RS in the Bay of Islands at RF64vs
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Re: TS-590S or FT-950 as a new radio?

Post by VK2XQ »

I bought neither actually, ended up getting a Yaesu FT-2000D base station HF-6m 200w all the way. Cost quite abit more but I think it was worth it, previously I was leaning towards the Kenwood as I had a TS-680S and TS-690S and they worked very well for me, not to mention the Kenwood reputation for excellent audio too.

So this is my first Yaesu on 50MHz, previously Icom or Kenwood on 50MHz, happy with the FT-2000D although at first I found it very complicated to set up and use.
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