CW requirement for two letter calls

[VK3ALB]

Was the intent of the OP just to stir things up or what was the purpose of the post?

Matt
VK1MA

I think I explained my self quite a few times including why I thought CW was special. At no time did I say my idea should be mandatory.

[VK2CSW]

At no time did I say my idea should be mandatory.

Yeah you did, in your first post:

I'd make the requirement meaningful and raise the proficiency level to 15WPM. Let everyone keep their calls now but as they are returned to the pool the only way to acquire a two letter call would be to "do the code".

If it is a requirement and if it is the only way to do something then it appears to be mandatory, don't you think?

[VK3ALB]

Yes Colin, they are my original words alright.

My reply to Matt probably should have said that it wouldn't affect current two letter call holders nor would it affect anyone that didn't want a two letter call.

If my idea was put in to practice then of course, an applicant would have to demonstrate CW proficiency at 15 WPM before they could apply for a two letter callsign recommendation.

[VK2XSO]

Was anybody listening to Radio National today ?
There was a piece on things that are binary.

The was a woman who was knitting morse code.

The first thing that jumped to mind was a ham fest. Where hams with the fashion taste of Jenny Kee on Rohypnol can make social statements to each other without the need to actually talk them or experience the various body odours.

[VK2JH]

I'm sorry, but, after reading the content of some of these posts. Adam, you must surely realise why many or most prefer to remain as "lurkers".


John
VK4JHC/VK2JH
Mount Hallen Qld

[VK3NQ]

How about we all learn to shoe horses as well...........lets stay modern

[VK3HJ]

What's "modern"?
We all carry our brains in our left hand and we poke at it all day, broadcasting our most trivial thoughts?
Or "non-radio" Amateur radio like Echolink, and Internet chat channels?
It's some of the "old-fashioned" radio technologies that interests many radio amateurs.
And don't dismiss horses. The equine industry is far larger than many of you city people seem to think.
Luke VK3HJ
AOCP

[VK7DR]

Hey Luke,
I just built a one valve radio so I can hear AM properly. What a difference!
6U8 RF stage and infinite impedance detector. Tunes 40 and 80.

Old technology eh? No, just radio technology used correctly.

But I knew you had to answer this one.
I don't mind horses - as long as they're wrecking someone else's land.
It's just their owners who make me wonder... and I thought AR suffered from too much mythological nonsense.

I wouldn't mind honing up my CW on air - but these days its like ringing Telstra... and I don't like talking to computers.

dah di dah

[VK3MEG]

interesting one just noticed an fcall got his advanced and wow a few weeks later has a 2 letter call ? interesting personally I dont want a 2letter call desperately but that shows me a silly situation. I thought you had to earn your stripes. I know a full call who has had his license for over 30 years and would love a 2 letter call has applied in a ballot a few times is on the radio daily a good ambassador still has his 3 letter call. go figure

[VK2CSW]

interesting one just noticed an fcall got his advanced and wow a few weeks later has a 2 letter call ? interesting personally I dont want a 2letter call desperately but that shows me a silly situation. I thought you had to earn your stripes. I know a full call who has had his license for over 30 years and would love a 2 letter call has applied in a ballot a few times is on the radio daily a good ambassador still has his 3 letter call. go figure

He sat and passed the exam.

This means he has, in fact, "earned his stripes".

You do understand that the two letter call is just that a call sign? You do understand that all it signifies is that you hold an AOCP?

I hate to shatter peoples illusions but it does not confer super powers upon you, nor does it signify that you are somehow a better person, or a "better operator" (whatever that might mean).

It is just a callsign, nothing more and nothing less.

Actually upon reflection it would seem that it is just possible that vanity calls such as this could be seen to reflect poorly on the holders - They could be seen as narcissistic and part of a "I am special so bow to me" clique.

Just Sayin'

[VK4GHZ]

They could be seen as narcissistic and part of a "I am special so bow to me" clique.

Where have you been for the last 30 years?
2-letter calls have always been perceived as "status symbols".

[VK3ALB]

interesting one just noticed an fcall got his advanced and wow a few weeks later has a 2 letter call ? interesting personally I dont want a 2letter call desperately but that shows me a silly situation. I thought you had to earn your stripes. I know a full call who has had his license for over 30 years and would love a 2 letter call has applied in a ballot a few times is on the radio daily a good ambassador still has his 3 letter call. go figure

He sat and passed the exam.

This means he has, in fact, "earned his stripes".

You do understand that the two letter call is just that a call sign? You do understand that all it signifies is that you hold an AOCP?

I hate to shatter peoples illusions but it does not confer super powers upon you, nor does it signify that you are somehow a better person, or a "better operator" (whatever that might mean).

It is just a callsign, nothing more and nothing less.

You are of course correct Colin but what it does indicate is that this person worked to reach an objective and succeeded. He gained enough knowledge to pass an exam and earn an AOCP. A very worth while achievement. I don't understand how you can align this achievement and effort with some kind of elitism or snobbery or discrimination. In my opinion, identifying someone achievement via a license or a medal or certificate or a badge or award of some kind is a very good thing. Imagine if everyone that competed in the Olympics received a grey medal and certificate of participation? A ridiculous scenario but I hope you see my point.

When I grew up it was "good, better, best never let it rest . . . ", now I see very many younger people identifying the bare minimum they need to do to achieve a goal and not wanting to do a scrap more than they think is necessary. I think it's a shame when I see this behavior, to me it's a waste of what could be some fantastic opportunities. Why not do your best and be recognized for it and more importantly be proud of your achievement without being concerned that others have not equaled or want to equal your achievements? I don't think anyone here has suggested elitism or discrimination or personal attack against any other operator, only the recognition of personal achievement.

I'm sorry you feel that this is some kind of attack because it's not meant to be so. I worry for the future of the technical pursuit amateur radio and feel that we are all slowly but surely dumbing down both in our hobby and in society. I think we need to strive to keep up our technical expertise as high as we can. Hell I reckon a majority of us (including me) would not be able to pass the original essay style AOCP exam if it was presented to us. I think that's a sad thing and PROOF that we are dumbing down.

It's my personal observation that the technical skills required to be come a radio operator have now become an obstacle rather than the prize and that, in my opinion, can only be a bad thing for our hobby. Now, if my concern about the falling skills (both technical and practical) in our hobby is some kind of elitism or discrimination then draw, quarter and hang me, I'm guilty as charged.

[VK2CSW]

Lou,

We already have a graded system. FOCP -> SOCP -> AOCP. So as you advance you already get recognition.

There is no difference between AOCP and AOCP with a two letter callsign.

By all means lobby ACMA to create a new UAOCP (Ultra Advanced OCP) syllabus and licence. This new category should require operators who aspire to these lofty heights to sit another exam, but for gawds sake don't base it on some wishy washy, old fashioned concept. Make it truly difficult and make it wide ranging in its curriculum. From spark gap and CW all the way to programming modern 64 bit microprocessors and writing software to run your home built radios.

At the same time make the practical exam, well practical. Make the candidates build something, then use it to communicate with stations not involved in the examination. Or get them to build and set up a /p station. I think you get the idea.

Basing it on narrow fields of expertise will not achieve anything and by making it wide ranging no single branch of the hobby gains status, immediately dismissing complaints about elitism.

Make it a real technical challenge, and worthy of the accolades and hero worship it will no doubt engender.

[VK3MEG]

Colin I'm aware that it doesn't give magic powers I was just making a point I thought when I first got back in to the hobby a 2 letter call was some one who had earned their stripes not just won a ballot.
re the higher grade above advanced. one thing to consider is to tag the 1Kw or 1.5kw to holders of the higher ticket.
after writing this I thought to myself this is just elitism. as you say it its just a call sign.
so coming back to other things. the fcall should stay the same. its a great introduction to the hobby but to proceed further you need to upgrade they did get it right when they put it together just enough to have fun. but not too much.
btw if they still had cw on the test I still wouldn't have my license and would never have achieved my dream.
my call sign is shorter than alot of 2 letter calls in cw so I'm happy.
discussion is healthy it creates the sparks of new idea's.
cheers
vk3meg
steve

[VK3PY]

In an earlier posting on this topic, Admin himself mentioned the 1977 theory exam. It occurs to me there must be several generations of hams about now who have never seen one of these, and therefore have no idea of the technical level at which they were pitched. Here is the February 1977 paper which I think may have been the last of the written response exams prior to the introduction of the multiple-guess tests. Just because I still have a copy, I've also included the August 1973 paper which I sat. The minimum mark to pass was 70%.

Test yourselves - it beats crosswords and sudoku!

Chas
VK3PY
Formerly VK3BRZ and VK3ZSG before that.

[VK6SIX]

""1977 theory exam. ""

Just like when us hams had to manually draw things like a trough type SWR/PWR meter circuit etc in the exam.

I failed tech drawing in high school, cannot draw for you know what.
.
Regarding the 2 letter call and cw etc, my 2 letter call came out of a school excercise book .... that was the official Australian Government VK6 record of ham calls. it had a brown paper cover..... The RIs in perth did not have a computer.

It was not possible to get a 3 letter full call, they had not been released. [except for Z calls]

dont ask me what i did last wednesday... i cannot remember

[VK3AIF]

....Here is the February 1977 paper which I think may have been the last of the written response exams prior to the introduction of the multiple-guess tests.....
Chas
VK3PY
Formerly VK3BRZ and VK3ZSG before that.

I think that from what I can remember the last of the written exams were phased out at the second AOCP exam in 1978? I think they ran both for a short while before dropping the former because they claimed it was more difficult to mark and the latter was more popular anyway, it might have even been early 79??

My recollections may have gone for a 6 like Graham's though?

[VK5PJ]

Well that was a flash back

In an earlier posting on this topic, Admin himself mentioned the 1977 theory exam. It occurs to me there must be several generations of hams about now who have never seen one of these, and therefore have no idea of the technical level at which they were pitched. Here is the February 1977 paper which I think may have been the last of the written response exams prior to the introduction of the multiple-guess tests. Just because I still have a copy, I've also included the August 1973 paper which I sat. The minimum mark to pass was 70%.
Test yourselves - it beats crosswords and sudoku!
Chas
VK3PY
Formerly VK3BRZ and VK3ZSG before that.

I sat and failed that one, mind you that was the year after I finished High School and I was defineitely NOT studying.

Peter, ex vk6zsp of the late 1970's

[VK2XSO]

I would have been one of the last DOC exam candidates but instead ended up as one of the first in the non-DOTC club organised exams.
The first exam was conducted on a Sunday and those who passed went to the North Sydney office Monday morning. VK2XS_ callsigns are where they started
issuing them. I went to the office on the Monday afternoon after work.

I just did the 1973 and 1977 exams for fun. I've never seen them before.
I could pass the 73 one without a fuss. I think it might have been a bit close for the 77.
That neutralisation capacitor gets me every time.

I certainly wouldn't have passed them in that year

[VK2AXL]

2-letter calls have always been perceived as "status symbols".

But this is only in VK2, 3 or 4. If you move to VK8 there is 2 letters calls aplenty and every full ticket can have one for no extra cost. So they are not special.

Anything is only considered valuable if everyone else doesnt have one.