Foundation class and 6m access

[VK5PO]

What really strikes me about all this particular thread, is the person that wants 6m access for "f" calls, did not even write the original post?

It would be fair for me to suggest that he/her is a tad lazy on several counts.

14 wpm to use the bottom of six metres? I would have very few other stations to converse with, don't even think about it David!!!!....hihi


you want?...you study... easy
John VK5PO

[VK3BA]

Once you get your head back into learning mode, it's pretty straight forward. All prospective upgradees, go here... http://www.radioelectronicschool.net/

I'm no rocket scientist and I got over the mark ok. The hardest thing was to leave the rigs turned off for a few months whilst I was studying. Short term pain for long term gain. If you want more bands and power, get off your ass

Cheers,

[VK3MEG]

The hardest thing was to leave the rigs turned off for a few months whilst I was studying

probably the best piece of advice I have heard. seriously thanks
cause I know I get distracted when studying and this could be the cure.

my thoughts no to 6 meters with f call the bands we have are plenty as said b4 you want it upgrade or sit a standard licence to start.
I can work dx on 10 with my fcall and play with troppo on 2 meters.
but my biggest mistake was getting foundation instead of standard. so now I'm going to go full call for my next step up I dont like exams so I'm going to do it in one hit. there is enough on the f call for a taste.
cheers

[VK3AUU]

Actually, if you want to work the real DX on 6M, you will find it much easier and quicker if you can use CW at 14 wpm. Don't scoff.

David
VK3AUU

[VK4WDM]

'What really strikes me about all this particular thread, is the person that wants 6m access for "f" calls, did not even write the original post?"

I don't think you can post unless you have a call sign.

Obviously this thread is less about the person who I spoke to and more about re-focussing on why the foundation licence was introduced and what it is supposed to achieve - something that many hams, especially the "F Calls", and prospective hams need to re-visit from time to time.

As I see it, the FL licence is NOT supposed to be a "claytons" version of the standard or advanced licence with similar band access but simply a lower power limit. It is supposed to give the licence holder a "taste “of what AR is about with a view to getting them hooked on the hobby and building enough enthusiasm to put in the work to up-grade. To that end, it is, and always has been, a firm opinion of mine that there should be a time limit on the FL - perhaps three years.

With regard to the bands that the FL can access. There are several issues: 1. They should be able to experience different types of propagation - lower bands, higher HF, VHF and UHF. 2. The bands chosen should be ones where they are likely to have some success with a power level of 10w and a modest station. 3. At least one of these bands should provide the chance of experiencing the thrill of working DX. 4. They should be bands where there is not a high risk of causing interference. IMO, the bands currently available are correct.

With regards to FL having access to 6m. A firm no. Although I have often expressed an opinion that 6m operators tend to over-emphasise the technical difficulty of operating on the band, considerable technical expertise, a good knowledge of propagation, and a high level of operating skill is required to be successful on 6m - it is certainly not a "learn as you play" situation. The other factor is the equipment required. Whilst all of us can recount times when we worked the world with 50w and a RF-loaded step ladder, the reality is that to be really successful on 6m you are going to need at least 100w to a well-designed yagi with 5 or more elements. 10w is just going to be a QRM source for other operators and a source of frustration for the FL operator.

So my advice to the enquirer who would love to operate on 6m is: get your FL. Strive to be the best 10m operator on the band - the characteristics of 10m are very similar to 6m, and get studying for an upgrade ASAP.

A couple more comments: Yes, I do think that the WIA should lobby the ACMA to allow use of some digital modes in the FL. Many of those who are interested in getting a AR licence these days are also into computers and a marriage between radio and computers would be very attractive to them. I do think that the standard license should allow access to all of 6m.

OK, off the soap box.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK4WDM]

From my observations as an (EX) WIA assessor is that 90% of the candidates have no intention whatsoever of ever upgrading. Indeed, the foundation licence seems to have attracted the oxygen thieves the average Ham, became a Ham to get away from. Only a small percentage have enough brains or gumption to go on to upgrade.

I sorry that you experience of F calls has been so negative, but I would really dispute the 90% figure. We have several F calls in our local club and they are very enthusiastic, willing to learn, and actively trying to improve their station and the results they are getting.

I operate on 40m and 10m quite a lot and have often best impressed by the operating skills and manners displayed by F calls. most of the bad behaviour I have heard is from advanced calls who really should know better

As for the barb about abuse of power levels. Yes, there are some who flout the limits, but are they any different from other license holders whose "magic coax" somehow multiplies 400w to a KW or more between the transceiver and the antenna?

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK5LA]

Wayne,
Of the 30 + candidates I have assessed only 2 have gone on to upgrade. The others seemingly have no intention/interest, as they can work all the DX they want at the moment, their "10 watts" does wonders!
How many foundation licensees have a pep watt meter? I'm glad you asked! My answer would be very, very few.
Hook up a pep watt meter to the average foundation license station and turn the output of the transmitter down to the correct 10 watts PEP level...sit back and listen to the howls of "No one can hear me now"...

Andy
VK5LA

[VK4WDM]

Hook up a pep watt meter to the average foundation license station and turn the output of the transmitter down to the correct 10 watts PEP level...sit back and listen to the howls of "No one can hear me now"...

My guess you would get the same howl from some advanced and standard licence holders if you put a PEP output meter on their transmitter and wound it back to their legal output!

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK4TI]

Hook up a pep watt meter to the average foundation license station and turn the output of the transmitter down to the correct 10 watts PEP level...sit back and listen to the howls of "No one can hear me now"...

My guess you would get the same howl from some advanced and standard licence holders if you put a PEP output meter on their transmitter and wound it back to their legal output!

Wayne VK4WDM

Well thats a big wet fish for someone

[VK2AVR]

F is for Foundation. It's an easy licence and it gets you into the hobby. You don't even need morse so it really couldn't be easier. Want more fun for your amateur dollar? Upgrade your licence!

[VK4NM]

Being someone who has progressed through the ranks I thought I would give my 2 cents worth.

Is the F Call a good thing....absolutely I would never have got into amateur radio if it wasn't introduced. I was a "cb'er" since the age of 13 and went for my foundation license when I heard about it. 3 months later I upgraded to the standard license and 3 years after that the advanced licence.

I agree with comments about limiting the time of the foundation license to 3 years or so, it is as plain as day in all the literature that is provided that the idea of the foundation license is "entry into amateur radio".

Are they given too much??? Possibly. Leaving aside VHF and above I believe on the HF bands they should only be given 10 & 80 BUT should be given the full 100 watts. My reasoning is 80m to have somewhere to talk at night and 10m to have somewhere to talk during the day (I hope you get my drift I don't need to be told that 10 opens at night).

Possibly this will offer some more incentive to want to upgrade.

VK4FREQ - VK4HAM - VK4NM

[VK2MUS]

I agree with comments about limiting the time of the foundation license to 3 years or so, it is as plain as day in all the literature that is provided that the idea of the foundation license is "entry into amateur radio".

foundation, standard and advanced are simply classes of licenses which are governed by restrictions as to what can be done with the licence. If you want to place time restrictions on one licence class then the restrictions need to apply across the board that is there is a change to the classes so that both foundation and standard are considered to be both entry type licenses to the advanced class. This is of course is not representative of the hobby - not all standards want to upgrade to advanced. The logic behind the foundation class was to allow entry into the hobby of non technical people and importantly people of all ages. The introduction of the Foundation class did stop the steady loss of operators and did rebuild the numbers up. If It is still doing that I am not sure not seeing the latest figures. A lot ofFoundation class do upgrade but a lot do not for reasons of their own - what they get out of the hobby may not match what you get out of the hobby - there is no reason why it should - each person gets what they want out of the hobby.- People that operate without a licence bring the hobby down - people that operate with a licence (any) build the hobby

Lets say you set a period aqfter which you must upgrade or I suppose lose your licence - ok there is no age limit for a radio licence - take a 12 year old who has a foundation licence - what time restriction are you going to place on that child to learn standard level electronics to upgrade to standard and then again what time limit will you place on that child to learn advanced electronics - It gets a bit more complex if you consider operators with sersious health conditions that may make upgrading difficult or in some cases impossible - how are you going to handle these situations

There has been a few suggesting time limits - the problem is some times people forget to turn their brain on before coming up with what they some times consider a solution to a non existent problem.

[VK4NM]

That maybe correct but I would like to see some stats on people who have obtained their Foundation license had it for one year and never renewed again. The reason being it is simple to obtain, they did a day course or read the manual the night before and thought why not. At no time where they interested enough to want to study or even renew their license.

Sure it helps out the local radio retailers, the second hand market and possibly the WIA but does it help anyone else out if we are not encouraging F calls to stay in the hobby.

I was lucky I met up with a local who introduced me to contesting and various other aspects of the hobby - otherwise I probably wouldn't still have my license or at the very least only be a standard call....Thanks Trent (VK4TI)

[VK3MEG]

very true Andrew I have been lucky I have found a few full calls who encourage me and help when needed. but like you I wonder how many stay in the hobby if you dont catch the bug like most of us here . it can be pretty lonely looking for a contact even on 2 meters. then they wonder why did I get it to this and there interest disappears.
the foundation licence as it stands is ok its mainly the 4 letter call that makes it hard you dont need more power or more bands. if you want them you do the work.
cheers
steve

[VK4BLP]

Whilst I fully support the idea of F calls getting both digital modes and power boost up to 50w max, I am definately against giving F calls extra bands to play with.

As many have posted elsewhere, Foundation licence is an introduction to Amateur Radio, and those who want the extra bands can upgrade their licence.

[VK2MUS]

Whilst I fully support the idea of F calls getting both digital modes and power boost up to 50w max, I am definately against giving F calls extra bands to play with.

As many have posted elsewhere, Foundation licence is an introduction to Amateur Radio, and those who want the extra bands can upgrade their licence.

agree
John

[VK3PCW]

I agree with most, I don't think adding 6m to the Foundation band-set is a good way to go.
I was a F-Call originally, and I wanted access to 20m, 6m and 23cm - so I upgraded. Really it wasn't all that hard.

Most will probably keel over laughing at this, but the regs did my head in more then the theory did. Any F-Calls that want to upgrade I recommend getting Ron's (Radio & Electronics School) CD/DVD, it's well worth the money.

52-54 Hmmm I know some think it's a bit scabby chopping the band in half like this, but then again I guess it's the incentive thing, just like the incentive to move up to standard licence from F-Call to get 6m. The next stepping block is obviously advanced to get the whole chunk and some.

Since there are some standard call holders complaining about lack of activity on the 52-54 segment of 6m, why don't you start a net there somewhere. You might be surprised, nets seem to drag people out of the woodwork.

Stew.

[VK4WDM]

Since there are some standard call holders complaining about lack of activity on the 52-54 segment of 6m, why don't you start a net there somewhere. You might be surprised, nets seem to drag people out of the woodwork.

As you say, the standard licences often complain that noboby wants to talk to them on 52MHZ but are they listening? I make a habit of putting out calls on 52.1 whenever the band is open but very rarely get a response (none in this years log). My antenna is wide-band so my signal is getting out ok.

And I agree, FL should not be expanded to cover 6m. The present plan is adequate, the only thing I would like to see is access to narrow band digital modes.

73

Wayne

[VK2JDS]

Wayne, when i decided to sit for my exam in 1978 my main interest was 6 metres. i studied and passed the theory and regs but only just failed the 10wpm receive at the marconi school

i am sure if your mate is as interested in 6 metres as i have always been he will get serious about learning all about it and be able to pass the advanced. if you dont know what you're dealing with from a technical point of view (pass the exam) then its just an interest rather than a passion

73 Dave

[VK2AVR]

The foundation course is so basic it's really just an entry point. Gets people into the hobby, hopefully gets them into their local club and learning from members with more expertise. There's nothing wrong with having to demonstrate knowledge to gain access to more perks... if you're not willing to do it then that's your prerogative and you miss out on the fun! Anyone who says they're not willing or it's too hard to upgrade is kidding themselves. Want 80m? 10m? 6m? 100W? Digital? Upgrade. Even with standard you get *all* of those. No need to go all the way to advanced unless you're really into the hobby.