VK Logger Ham Radio Forum Archive

Just for the record Craig's application went off to ACMA last night. Craig no longer has to use an "experimental" frequency and his node has a frequency assigned to it. I'm pretty sure that it is worth filling out a couple of forms and paying a license fee to have the certainty of an assigned frequency. The process is not that painful or complicated if you do as Craig has done & supply the information needed- I turned this one around in a couple of days because Craig provided the information needed.

Cheers

Richard
VK2AAH

I ran a 24/7 unattended simplex IRLP and Echolink Node for several years and went through the process of having it licensed as a repeater on 2M and 70cm frequencies allocated by the WIA. Really it's no fuss and keeps everyone happy.


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VK4DU wrote:



9.1. (d) of the LCD does not prohibit IRLP/Echolink - as they are, by definition, computer controlled modes. The items listed in the brackets are examples, not definitive requirements.

I disagree.

IRLP/ ECHOLINK while they are run by a computer are not controlled by one. They key up and transmit in response a a ham somewhere keying up. ie in direct response to a human action. The only time they key up themselves is for ident etc. the same as a repeater.

A WSPR station is fully automated and keys up independantly of any human action.

VK2JDH wrote:A WSPR station is fully automated and keys up independently of any human action.

If one ignores that fact that a human turned on the radio, connected the radio to the computer, turned on the computer, logged in and ran the WSPR software

I'm with VK4DU on this one. The computer is controlling the radio. This may be initiated by a human action but the computer is still in control. It can decide to turn of the transmitter whenever it wants (timeout) regardless of what the human is doing (i.e. talking too long).

I didn't have the energy to bicker with the ACMA over this.

I just wanted my node back on air as soon as possible as it get's used a lot and people were constantly emailing me asking where it went.

Yes the LCD's are not specifically clear re IRLP nodes and probably need to be updated and clarified especially what's "computer controlled" and what is not.

For $1.42 a week...that is...about 20c a day, if there is further interference that degrades the user experience of the node in my area, the ACMA will investigate it as I'm paying for the privilege to use it's allocated frequency.

No average amateur radio license assigns or allows anyone a single frequency for their sole use for any amount of time, in any particular area unless it's a repeater or beacon license.

The ACMA have assured me they've already 'pinged' (their word - not mine) a few operators of unlicensed nodes and I dare say they'll probably be investigating more.

I don't know whether people are getting caught out during normal license inspections or if areas where there are a lot of nodes, other amateurs are complaining about nodes just parking on a frequency and claiming it as theirs. I don't know what has drawn the ACMA's attention to this now, but for whatever reason - they are onto it here in Victoria.

If anyone does successfully argue this point with the ACMA anywhere in Australia and are told they can just take up residence on an any amateur frequency (barring repeater inputs or outputs) they please, then by all means post here as I'm interested to see what happens elsewhere.

Anyway, for 20c a day "VK3RCM" will be on 145.400 MHz with a 91.5 CTCSS (pending ACMA approval of the frequency and issuing of the license) in the Lara, Geelong, Bellarine Peninsula and Werribee soon so I'm happy.

Thanks also to Richard for processing the application so quickly

VK3CRG wrote:No average amateur radio license assigns or allows anyone a single frequency for their sole use for any amount of time, in any particular area unless it's a repeater or beacon license.

Is this actually the case? Except for the bit about 'not causing harmful interference', I can't find anything in the LCD which specifically says I can't operate on frequencies assigned to beacons or repeaters.

VK5ZD wrote: Is this actually the case? Except for the bit about 'not causing harmful interference', I can't find anything in the LCD which specifically says I can't operate on frequencies assigned to beacons or repeaters.

The thing not mentioned in all this rationale for requiring a repeater licence is that many if not most IRLP and Echolink radio nodes operate in concert with a local repeater, they do not use a separate allocation. Someone is no doubt going to argue that the licence authorises such use.

We are overregulated, overruled... especially for a notionally experimental service.

Owen

The whole purpose of the current system is to optimise the use of spectrum by minimising potential interference between services. If you can come up with a deregulated method of achieving that Owen you are far smarter than the rest of us. Feel free to suggest how this would work.

There are "experimental" and there are "permanent" services. The services being licensed are "permanent" services that in no way prevent others from experimenting on the frequencies set aside for that purpose.

Cheers


Richard
VK2AAH

VK5ZD wrote: It can decide to turn of the transmitter whenever it wants (timeout) regardless of what the human is doing (i.e. talking too long).

Which is the same as a repeater controller. Thats all IRLP/ECHOLINK computer does, is a glorified repeater controller.

VK2OMD wrote:
The thing not mentioned in all this rationale for requiring a repeater licence is that many if not most IRLP and Echolink radio nodes operate in concert with a local repeater, they do not use a separate allocation.

Right. This is the way that the system has been operating for years. The LCD hasn't changed, so why has the interpretation suddenly changed?

I almost never operate 2/70 FM these days, but when I did, simplex input nodes into repeaters and straight simplex nodes operated very successfully under the premise of gentlemen's agreements (ie simplex nodes and freqs) here in Sydney.

I don't imagine the sky has fallen so much over the years since to warrant a different interpretation? Nor are the bands that crowded and active that they warrant such regulation?

VK2AAH wrote:Just for the record Craig's application went off to ACMA last night. Craig no longer has to use an "experimental" frequency and his node has a frequency assigned to it. I'm pretty sure that it is worth filling out a couple of forms and paying a license fee to have the certainty of an assigned frequency. The process is not that painful or complicated if you do as Craig has done & supply the information needed- I turned this one around in a couple of days because Craig provided the information needed.

Cheers

Richard
VK2AAH

Is there a place where people can get this application paper work to make things even simpler for when applying to the WIA & ACMA for such a license?

The forms you use are the ACMA's RO57 and RO77...

http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/ma ... 28s%29.pdf

http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/ma ... mation.pdf

Cheers


Richard
VK2AAH

Perhaps the " you need a seperate license" requirement also applies digipeaters and RF iGates that support the APRS network? Does anyone have any first hand experience on that?

Some people/club have Digis registered/attached to their "repeater" assignment.


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VK2AAH wrote:The forms you use are the ACMA's RO57 and RO77...

http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/ma ... 28s%29.pdf

http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/_assets/ma ... mation.pdf

Cheers


Richard
VK2AAH

Do they need to be given to the WIA?
I would have thought there might have been another form to go with it by the WIA.

My understanding is yes

Yes it does have to go through the WIA.

And you need to submit a call-sign request... you need to get that from the WIA office or someone here might have a blank copy (I don't)... Mal at the office will then forward the call-sign allocation to me & I will do the rest... it isn't a hard process. All up it will cost you $96 ($76 to ACMA, $20 for the call-sign).

Cheers

Richard
VK2AAH

So does one simply request any frequency (simplex such as 145.4 or 145.525 etc or something lower in the band - around 144.7 area) or is it best to leave it free and allow the powers to be make the allocation

If you aren't confident or certain about how the WIA bandplan works I suggest that you leave the frequency blank, however you are perfectly welcome to nominate a frequency. I will discuss any problems with you (if there are any) before the paperwork is lodged.

Cheers


Richard
VK2AAH

VK2AAH wrote:Yes it does have to go through the WIA.

And you need to submit a call-sign request... you need to get that from the WIA office or someone here might have a blank copy (I don't)... Mal at the office will then forward the call-sign allocation to me & I will do the rest... it isn't a hard process. All up it will cost you $96 ($76 to ACMA, $20 for the call-sign).

Cheers

Richard
VK2AAH

G'day Richard, is this process still taking about five months from go to whoa? Or from initial submission to phone call from ACMA? I went through this process a few years ago and experienced a five month wait. If it's now quicker, great. If not, applicants need to know before applying. When the ACMA received the paperwork from the WIA, they only had it for a couple of weeks before calling me with the good news.

Cheers,