License Issue Timescales

[VK2AAH]

Hi all,

Those who get AR may notice that the President has now made it public that I am assisting Peter Mill as Joint National Repeater & Beacon Co-ordinator. Those who think that no-one listens to the opinions expressed here should take heart in that. I'm on L plates in terms of understanding the processes and appreciate Peter Mill working with me to tackle some very big issues that going to impact many repeater & link licence holders. Hopefully I can help.

Cheers,


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK7YXX]

G'day Richard,

Good news! I look forward to positive results from your efforts.

Cheers - Don.

[VK3XRI]

ok very intresting !!! and some very releevant posts ,

here is one for ya all !!!

say you have a repater set up at your QTH , for what ever reason , say your in an area that is out of coverage of repeaters , or what ever , or say you are doing rallys , or bike races or scouting events , what ever the reason ,

is is plausable to put a repeater up on a freq pair that is un used or not going to cause any interference ,

or if per say you have sent off your application , and are awaiting a response !!!! can you put the repeater into action on a "test " using your own call ,

i have heard of it done several times and by a fair few !!! as i was once told there is no restrictions on freq that one can use , and providing it has the right fail safes ie id's time out shut down etc etc , and this is either at your licenced address or you are with the repeater , and bnot causing interference its all ok

i first found this all a bit hard to accept thinking that there has to be licnces in place but after thinking about it , it sort of makes sense

thoughts ?????????????????????

i am lead to belive this is fairly common practive with a number of operators ?????

again thoughts .....

[VK2AAH]

Well my understanding is that the repeater must be licenced, so whether it is at your QTH or anywhere else doesn't change that. If you know of operators running repeaters that aren't licenced I'd hope you'd let them know... And of course there are restrictions on the frequencies to be used! Now wouldn't it be great if we all did our own thing... suddenly we have well used repeaters get impacted by someone's private repeater.

I guess this is as good a time as any to air my view on the number of repeaters that are supposed to exist... to me it is just plain nuts. Surely less repeaters, but better planned & engineered, is the way to go? Repeater spectrum on the east coast in particular is scarce & the thought that some may choose to, in effect, provide a repeater just to meet their own need is just plain selfish & short sighted.

Lastly your comment about it being OK to do this so long as you don't cause interference is concerning. How do you know if you are causing interference to another repeater? You can't see what is happening at someone else's repeater input. And if you aren't licenced how does a licenced repeater owner trace the problem? They don't know it exists if it doesn't appear in the ACMA database...

Cheers,

Richard
VK2AAH

[VK3XRI]

Thanks .. Pretty much what I was thinking , just putting it out there for a second or third opinion

Although still a grey area cross band are allowed and so are simplex echolink and irlp

The other issue is pretty much what has been stated that the repeaters that are around don't work poor coverage or licenses held just becouse they can ...

I know of several in my general area one license has not been activated in the years I have been licensed .. But sits registered to the person

The whole system needs seeing just darn silly


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VK3BA]

G'day John,

Been down this track a few times before...

And before the fun police ask me to provide what section & paragraph this is shown in which act, look it up yourself. The WIA-TAC are good for this too.

You can establish a repeater on a non-interference basis for a period of up to 7 days at a time.

For short term ops, Cross-band rptrs are ok as long as everyone else is aware of how it operates, you have CTCSS protection, etc.

For long term operation, the device should be licensed as configured. But for testing purposes it's ok. If you enquire with the WIA-TAC, you'll receive some friendly advice on how it works. The main problem is, as is well documented here, that the whole licensing process is such a drawn out affair. No wonder there's a few repeaters out there in "test mode"...

If I had to go through the wringer again, I would just rather pay a commercial 3rd party provider (if we we're allowed - but currently we're not)and be done with it - at least it would be all done within 48hrs.

Cheers,

[VK3ALB]

You can establish a repeater on a non-interference basis for a period of up to 7 days at a time.

Does that mean you can also operate as an amateur for a short period of time without a license on a non-interference basis?

[VK3BA]

You can establish a repeater on a non-interference basis for a period of up to 7 days at a time.

Does that mean you can also operate as an amateur for a short period of time without a license on a non-interference basis?

Well, as you know Ghostrider, there's enough people NW of here that operate in such a fashion, except at night they regularly interfere with my sanity...

Cheers,

[VK3ALB]

Does that mean you can also operate as an amateur for a short period of time without a license on a non-interference basis?

Well, as you know Ghostrider, there's enough people NW of here that operate in such a fashion, except at night they regularly interfere with my sanity...

Cheers,

Crikey!

[VK3XRI]

G'day John,

Been down this track a few times before...

And before the fun police ask me to provide what section & paragraph this is shown in which act, look it up yourself. The WIA-TAC are good for this too.

You can establish a repeater on a non-interference basis for a period of up to 7 days at a time.

For short term ops, Cross-band rptrs are ok as long as everyone else is aware of how it operates, you have CTCSS protection, etc.

For long term operation, the device should be licensed as configured. But for testing purposes it's ok. If you enquire with the WIA-TAC, you'll receive some friendly advice on how it works. The main problem is, as is well documented here, that the whole licensing process is such a drawn out affair. No wonder there's a few repeaters out there in "test mode"...

If I had to go through the wringer again, I would just rather pay a commercial 3rd party provider (if we we're allowed - but currently we're not)and be done with it - at least it would be all done within 48hrs.

gday thanks for the response ,,, and the info intresting to know ... so i can only assume this is how these "test " repeaters and other ones around the place for car rallys and exersises are getting away with it !! , handy option to have

i will send off the email to the WIA etc , but i can only assume that this can only be done from your QTH or location that you are located , with it .. and must have your call as the id ,,, again only guessing .... intresting topic ,,,, i guess ithere is a little hope for some of us experimenters after all ...

Does that mean you can also operate as an amateur for a short period of time without a license on a non-interference basis?

yeah of course you can ... how many pirates do you recon are on the bands ,,, 70cm lipds the list goes on ... no worries mate knock your self out !!

[VK2AAH]

Hi all,

Just a little update on this issue... my estimates of the amount of time needed to deal with most of the 420-430MHz changes was way under what is the case. There is alot of cleaning up needed by a large number of licensees because the paperwork has not been kept up till date. This isn't a criticism... club office holders are volunteers and these change over time. However I can now see how unrealistic some of the previous comments made on this subject were (including the odd one from me). When I can easily consume 4-6 solid hours on each application intertwined with earning a living, then allowance made for exchange of emails & phone calls... I would be naive to believe that these changes could be done in less than 4-6 weeks- it just can't happen no matter how good some people think they are! And I have a very generous/tolerant boss.

Cheers,


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK4DU]

Hello all,

Fascinating thread.

Howard - have you got your licence yet?



Just run the repeater from home, on a test basis....you are nowhere near the commercial sites, and we are not exactly over run with 70cm repeaters up here in the far north...

Testing, testing...



73
Glenn VK4DU

[VK7HH]

Hi All,
I have read this post before - and I have got the point where I am sick and tired of the lengthy delays and processes involved in both a normal amateur licence and repeater licence. I spoke to a commercial operator the other day who said that their licences take "days" to go through. Not saying that amateur licences should be that fast - just quicker than 6 months.

I have submitted two licence applications around 2-3 months ago now. First and foremost the WIA website states here - http://www.wia.org.au/members/tac/repeaterlicence/

"Upon receipt all applications will be issued with a reference number for tracking purposes, and an acknowledgement letter sent to the nominated club/organisation representative"

I did not receive one of these until I followed it up myself. I had to email the WIA manager for the tracking numbers associated with my licences. I also have had to follow up with the RABC person several times to see at what stage my applications were - the response I received was not an acceptable one as detailed below in the "email trail".

I have now gotten to the stage of emailing the WIA President - VK2ASD (http://www.wia.org.au/joinwia/wia/board/. I would recommend ALL other people who have had a similar problem also do this, so that we can get some acceptable resolution in regards to repeater and general licences. It is completely unacceptable too when I hear that a Foundation station has passed the exam and upgraded his licence to an Advanced and he has been waiting months for his "new" callsign to come through - with no updates as to what is happening.

I note there are some people that state "just run the repeater on test, or licence it and then build the gear waiting for the site etc". In some cases, you can't licence it at the site due to you not having site access yet - that may cause a problem. Also some sites are impossible to visit every couple of days to "switch on and off" when it is running portable or "testing".

Below is an email list -


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Hayden
Date: Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 10:13 AM
Subject: Repeater Licence Application time duration
To: vk2asd


Hi Phil,
Sorry to bother you, but I think this matter should be brought to your attention.

I have submitted two repeater applications (over 2 months ago now) and I have not been updated, nor informed as to what stage they are at. According to the website, I should receive a tracking number for each application, which I only got once I asked for it.

Below is a list of email conversations with M and P. The responses from P are unacceptable as "I will let you know" does not answer my initial question. I think it is entirely unacceptable that I should have to wait at least 4 months+ for a repeater application (or indeed licence change). This has been an ongoing issue since the introduction of all applications through the central WIA RABC.

I await your response.

Regards
Hayden



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Hayden
Date: Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 4:04 PM
Subject: Fwd: Repeater Applications
To: M


Hi M
Received this response from P on Friday. Once again, same response and not answering my question.

Some further feedback - I used to be a WIA member - I did not renew my membership due to a similar problem last time I submitted some repeater applications. Also, what is happening with licence fees always on the increase? I noticed it has gone up to $73 now.

Regards
Hayden


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: P
Date: Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 7:26 AM
Subject: RE: Repeater Applications
To: Hayden


Hi Hayden,



Sorry been away a few days. I will let you know



Cheers P





On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 1:44 PM, M wrote:
Hello Hayden,

I'll follow up with P. I believe he's overseas at the moment, but I'll get back to you when I have news.

Regards,


M

On 5/04/2013 1:22 PM, Hayden wrote:
Hi M,
I have emailed P requesting an update on the progress of my applications. I have not received a response.

As you can see below - I did not ask if the amendments had been received. I have sent another email yesterday asking if there had been any progress on the applications. The gear has arrived and we would like to see them implemented.

I am disappointed that it has taken almost 2 months for the TAC, and I have still not been updated of where the applications are at - including not receiving a posted confirmation with the reference numbers - as outlines here: http://www.wia.org.au/members/tac/repeaterlicence/. It was only after I had to contact you, did I find this out. I also note that you advise the ACMA may also take up to 60 days to process the application there end. From past experience with Repeater Applications being sent to the RABC first, I find it most ridiculous that the timeframes expected are now amounting over 3-6 months. Please forward these feedback comments on, and I look forward to your response,

Regards
Hayden



From: Hayden
Sent: Thursday, 4 April 2013 12:19
To: P
Subject: Re: Repeater Applications



Hi P,

Has there been any progress on the applications for the repeaters yet? The gear has arrived, we are nearly ready to install.



Regards

Hayden



On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 9:31 PM, M wrote:

Hi Hayden,

I got all your amendments. I will let you know.



Cheers P



From: Hayden
Sent: Thursday, 14 March 2013 11:03
To: @.com.au
Subject: Repeater Applications



Hi P,

I just wondered where the applications are at for the following repeater proposals.



2013/VK7/XXXX - EDITED
2013/VK7/XXXX EDITED



Regards

Hayden

[VK4GHZ]

...Not saying that amateur licences should be that fast - just quicker than 6 months.

No one can argue, this is an excessive time to wait.

More evidence that the WIA Board has lost control over the volunteer army?
Perhaps this is (yet another) core function that should be performed by employees, where there is some accountability.

Phil must be getting sick of having to intervene in what should be routine matters.

[VK7HH]

I think that is a core issue Adam.

Something needs to be done about it however.

[VK2AAH]

For the record (as I don't want my name sullied) I know nothing about any of this- and I would be as cranky as you are Hayden.

Cheers


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK7HH]

Clearly there is a communication issue going on Richard and yes for the record you are not one of the people I was referring too.

I actually did not realize you were Joint National Repeater and Beacon Coordinator too. There are many cases of lengthy delays - and the lack of information to repeater licencees is disappointing.

[VK5ZD]

Hi

I've mentioned this previously, but the agreement between ACMA and the WIA (http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/aba/licpla ... ly2011.pdf) states that a callsign recommendation must be given within 15 working days of receipt of a correctly completed application (see 8.3.1(c)). No mention of time extensions due to overseas trips, lack of round tuits, too busy, etc., etc.

73
Iain

[VK2AAH]

Now for the rest of us that live in the real world Iain... it doesn't take a mental genius to vomit regulations but it takes a bit more to apply some common sense. The object should be to process fully documented, technically sound applications as quickly as possible. I've turned some around in an hour or two, and then there is a club that never has sorted out their licensing after nearly a year because THEY don't want to do the right thing. The key is that it should be a team effort between the WIA rep & the applicant- and then ACMA.

Common sense & courtesy over reciting regulations for me- any day.

Cheers


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK7YXX]

It's interesting to note that nothing has changed in the last 12 months (and more). I feel your pain Hayden.