ACMA inspecting lots of F Calls

[VK2FAK]

Hi all....

Yes I agree..the head body should be making some comments..

What is happening here is a discussion....just what the forum is for, an named as such....people annoy me who try to shut down a discussion..

Has anyone thought that Ms Gillard is trying to pay off the National debt early and has sent the boys out to rake in some more money to the Gov''t revenue...

John

[VK2GOM]

Copy of letter sent by email to the president of the WIA a few moments ago:

Dear Sir,

There has been a lot of consternation and subjective discussion of late on VKLogger (http://www.vklogger.com) concerning ACMA inspections of stations in VK3. It appears the main thrust of these inspections are to determine if amateurs possess equipment which is capable of transmitting (ie. not necessarily used) outside of the VHF amateur bands.

Many VKLogger members have scrutinised the radiocommunications legislation, and come to the conclusion that simply owning a radio or piece of equipment that has the capability to emit RF outside of the amateur allocations is illegal.

Thus, any home built synthesizers without frequency stops, test oscillators, antenna analysers, older traditional VFO controlled radios, handhelds designed for a worldwide market, and many other types of amateur radio equipment would thus become illegal to own due to their capability to emit RF outside of the amateur bands.

One station that was inspected by the ACMA claims he was told to have his radio adjusted/modified to be unable to transmit outside of amateur bands in order to avoid a 'stiff penalty.' But there was no evidence he was using this radio to transmit outside of the amateur bands.

In much the same way, I own a sports motorcycle that is capable of 290km/h. But I am not prosecuted on its capability - only if I am caught exercising that capability.

I suggest the WIA in its capacity of representing Australian radio amateurs, seeks clarification with the ACMA concerning the equipment I have highlighted.

I look forward to your response, and would suggest that findings/discussions are published for the benefit of all in Amateur Radio magazine as soon as possible.

Yours faithfully,
Rob Greaves VK2GOM

73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[VK3GCP]

precisely my thoughts rob, thankyou for writing that.

[VK2CJC]

Nice one Rob. This is a matter that would be best taken to the ACMA via the WIA.

LAJ makes a good point. They havent charged anyone in 18 years since the radcoms act, and most likely wont.

FAK- I would like to take your comments as correct, but I fear its not so simple. The ACMA man himself said-
>> If it is programmable from the front keyboard onto TX frequencies outside of the amateur bands it is not permitted.

I am very willing to admit I'm helping stir up a storm in a tea cup. But I have always thought I was a pretty good radio ham. Always operated within my license condtions. Even with home brew and converted ex-military gear. Now I find I have been bending the rules to do so.

Let us all now if the WIA say anything worth hearing

[VK2HRD]

If the ACMA or the WIA can stop people like this, then it can only be a good thing!!

HAVE A 10 MTR TEXAS STAR DX500V AMP FOR SALE.
IT IS A CW AMP THAT WAS MODDED BY THEM FOR TX.
4 WATTS IN GIVES 250 OUT.
20 WATTS IN GIVES 500 OUT.
THIS AMP IS 2 MNTHS OLD.
VK3F***

(removed callsign and some other info - its on vkham if you care to look it up)

Why on earth would an F-Call have the need for a 500 watt amp!! This really gets me angry.. People passing the F-exam with no real knowledge or skill and then do whatever they like.. Would anyone agree that a time limit/expiry should be placed on an F-CALL to upgrade? If they're a ham they will, if they're a cb'er with a ham radio then it should weed them out.

I think the F-Call license opens the gates for idiots (not all f-calls obviously) to have the ability to buy equipment that they simply shouldnt have. If they are the ones causing interference then they are making us ALL look bad!

Perhaps with some conditions (ie does not apply to people under the age of 18 or something) ?

<END OF RANT>

I agree with you to a point but My daughter is 12 and is very proud of the fact that she has a amateur lic and is an F call my Wife and Me have recently separated (not the issue just background) I can't see my daughter upgrading her lic for a number of years as her mother is uncooperative at best. Are you saying that she should be made to upgrade her lic given that she is starting high school and has a new set of Study priorities that would be unfair.To my knowledge she has operated well with in the boundaries of her lic and won't even go up in power to sign of if she looses the repeater due to travelling.
Just putting a different slant on things.

[VK3ZFS]

My Guess is, the crap has hit the fan, with some norty activity by unidentified person or persons unknowen, ACMA is under pressure to work for its masters to fix up the mess, the most easy target to investergate is F calls!

[VK3LAJ]

VK2HRD thats why i suggested it not apply to people under 18 or something... its just a thought.
I was an F-call at one stage too, but i upgraded pretty quickly.

Would be interested to see some stats regarding the amount of F-Calls coming in, vs the % that upgrade. (say within a 12 month period)

[VK2FAK]

Hi all....

Just a comment to the Post regarding the 12yr old having a "F" call....as 12 is not an adult....who is responsible for her if she was doing something she should not be doing...

This is just a general question......I cant see a 12yr old being able to pay a $1500 fine...


John

[VK3GCP]

Thats a good point john.

While I consider myself responsible for the radio equipment in the house (being the oldest licencee here) I am only 16. So what happens then if they decide to fine me, and lets say (hypothetically) I want to challenge it. I dont have thousands of dollars, I can bearly afford the radio themself! and what happens if they decide to inspect my brothers station? He is still using my gear to get on air until he can buy his own, so what happens there?

[VK3ZFS]

I can see the ACMA inspectors, finding any Chineese hand helds 136-174 420-480Mhz, possesed by anyone, will get the cordless drill treatment a few holes drilled into the handheld

[VK3AUU]

With all due respect to the posters, it is about time all the hysteria ground to a hold and the thread was closed. I suspect that there has been some misinformation given by some of the RI's as well as others, who shall remain nameless.

David

[VK2HRD]

Hi all....

Just a comment to the Post regarding the 12yr old having a "F" call....as 12 is not an adult....who is responsible for her if she was doing something she should not be doing...

This is just a general question......I cant see a 12yr old being able to pay a $1500 fine...


John

As she is my child and MY RESPONSIBILITY it is my cause to pay the fine but as I also pointed out she doesn't break the rules either and will most of the time opt on the side of caution how ever she is not with me 100% of the time and her mother won't let her use the house radio left behind for her to use and given that the local radio users know us personally as well as over the air word will get back to me fairly quickly and or she will be taken to task by the Elmer's in the area.So she does the right thing and it is acknowledged by the area as a whole when she is on air.

Sorry if I miss read the earlier post but I took it to mean that you could not get a Lic under 18 years.

[VK2AAH]

Wish they would come and visit me.

I'd invite them in and offer then a cupa and a cream biscuit ( wouldn't get that at the ACMA)


Compton
VK2HRX

Awww I don't know about that... I've found their catering at the Sydney office has improved!

But seriously I wonder why anyone should be concerned about an audit. The guys I have known over the years have been helpful & more interested in sorting out any problems rather than creating new ones. Apply common sense without attitude & they are good blokes. I'll shout 'em a coffee.

Regards,

Richard

[VK2HRX]

The RI is not the law. He is just administering it in the way that the/ACMA interprets it. RI issue a fine. You don't pay it. What happens next? It goes to court to be enforced. It is then that the principle of the reasonable man applies. Is it reasonable for a std license holder to have a radio capable of Tx below 52MHz? Yes would be the reasonable view.

So before we all panic, consider if it is reasonable. Plenty of examples. I have a Barrett 550 commercial radio. Type approved, Can Tx out of the ham bands, no problem for me to have it as I have a legitimate purpose. I mod my VX6 so I could use it on the 6M band, no problem as it is a legitimate use.

Mr Bubba in my cell ( we are sharing now) told me this.

Compton

[VK4WDM]

My guess is that the "reasonable man" approach would be used by the RI as well.

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK2XSO]

The radcom act is an insult to Amateur Radio. The law does not reflect common practise or common sense. It needs changed.

The same could be said for most laws.

The Law does not recognise common sense. It sounds silly, but you will hear any lawyer say those words while meaning exactly what he says while enjoying the irony of the joke.

There is "Statute Law", are laws written and enacted by parliament.
"Common Law" is precedential.

I prefer to think of statute law like the bones of the law and common law like the tendons which give them flexibility yet help to hold the structure together.

Even IF you could personally write the Radcom act yourself, evil people like me would first find the loopholes in it
You can then plug the loopholes each with an act of parliament of which I may be the opposition, or a powerful lobby further impeding your domination of the law.

Then it comes down to enforcement of the law and prosecution. Which is exactly what the ACMA faces in this exact situation.
The offender can have his lower sideband out of band and the ACMA can prosecute him and fine him $2. He takes it to court and even if he is found guilty, it will cost the ACMA $2000 to have the case heard.

As anybody who has been to court and won knows... it's called a moral victory, because it ain't a monetary one !

Then the final hurdle is the court itself. If the court throws the case out, finds the person not guilty or determines the law is not constitutional, or even determines the law is no longer relevant to society, the case will be dismissed. It may also escalate to higher courts.
You can imagine the High Court of Australia's Judges sitting down at the bench to discover they are hearing a case for a $150 ACMA fine.

One thing I can say about the law is; The more complex and unpredictable it is, the more people it will keep employed, on every side of the law.

[VK2FAK]

Hi all....

I am sure nobody on the forum is blaming the RI for just doing his job....and yes there probably all nice guys..

The issue is and was at the start of the thread....what are they deeming to be an offense. If its simply the fact that you have a radio that can operate outside of the ham bands...well anyone with a radio on the bench or on the shelf that is older than say 10yrs old...and lets face it...probably 70% of operators do......it could be there all in breach of a section of the law. ....And this is what needs to be cleared up.

Its interesting that quite a few people were suppose to have been issued with infringement notices....but none of them seem to be members of this forum....

John

[VK2GOM]

I am sure nobody on the forum is blaming the RI for just doing his job....and yes there probably all nice guys..

...and girls! My last ACMA RI visitor was a lady!

73 - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[VK2GFR]

Many years ago, a simliar topic arose re-Novices (the original type) & high power rigs.
Then Yaesu & Kenwood evolved the FT7 & the TS120V which were low power units at about 30WPEP. I've never owned either but have had dealings with their big brothers (sisters) the FT7B & TS130S.
Did having a big knob there to turn up to make my sigs any better really have an effect, not really. It is very much dependant on location & antenna.
In the "good old days" when we were converting crystal locked 23 ch CB radios to 10M we only had 5-10WPEP anyway & I was able to chat (semi-regular) to the USA, Japan, Pacific Islands all on low power on a 1/2 wave vertical. Even now with my current set up, do I really need my 10KW, 48 element, 40M 4 Stacked beams to talk to anyone? NO WAY just a little up the stick is all it takes.
The parallel here is the old car engine senario... my V8 is better than your 4 cyl rice burner. It may well be, but I get better fuel economy!

If the need is there to "keep the regulations in force" then so be it.That's what the ACMA is there for. Years ago the RI then were feared but revered as well as the "up-holders of the radio law". Even though we are suposed to be a self regulating body, some times an outsider is & can be the best friend.

[VK3XRI]

this is a very interesting topic .......

seems to be a lot of he said , she said going on but i guess that this is making it interesting reading ,

The main concern i have is , (along with the others ) that he radios we have in our possession are now classed as being outside the law ,

Now look at the alinco's and yasues , these come from most retailers (wont name them here )are broadbanded ,

while some , well ok most of these can be fixed with a press of a button , some can not , i don't think the alinco's have a key pad mod to revert them back , but i could be wrong

the cheap Asian brands , most can be ordered with in your band limits , the quansheng can and i know this for a fact , so there are no way out there

on the other side of the coin .... what about if you are a member of an outside organization like a radio /marine /4wd/emergency group etc that has commercial licenses that you are permitted to operate on as part of your membership and use some of your "ham " gear to save coin

is this now illegal ,

I to have had a visit i was not home at the time and made a call to see what the issue was , i got voice mail , left a message and never had a call back

like most others , it has been under stood to me that as amateurs we can own these radios that go out of band , so long as we stay with in out licensed freq segments

as far as i have always thought you can go and buy any radio you like , its when you use it you are breaking the law , i.e those that go and buy a VHF marine from DSE its cool put it in your boat have a listen , its when you key up that's the issue

lets just hope that while the guys are running around checking us , they are also checking those that don't have a license , that are using our bands , (the gang's in china town that used to use 2 meters for comms , dont know if they still do , )