PSK on 50MHZ?

[VK6LD]

According to the ARRL website, PSK31's ITU emission designator is 60H0J2B. (Ref: ARRL Website).

Also the ITU: Go to page 9

If you are in the "other" 2/3'rds of Australia (VK5, VK6, VK7 or VK8) and not causing interference to a Ch.0 transmission then it would not appear to matter...?

Could the confusion be not distinguishing between 50-52MHz operation in VK1, VK2, VK3 & VK4 and what is allowed in the majority of the land mass of the Australia as the source of confusion between some in this thread...?

Regards.

[VK3TOM]

This is a very intresting discussion ....

Looking at the latest call book there is no Channel 0 stations in Victoria and 2 station on channel 5A 138.250 / 143.750 but on the other side of the state at Colac and Hamilton

So the comment about being in the other 2/3 of australia is very valid.

Tom

[vk3six]

We seem to go through this periodically as someone thinks there is an anomoly and the obvious licence rules has to be restated.

SSB CW 100 watts RTTY 30 watts.

PLAIN AS DAY.

Interpret the RTTY anyway you want but the guy who wrote the TLS said RTTY
not PSk
NOT DATA
NOT PACKET


RTTY 30 watts





Or you can wait for a coupla years for us to turn off the CH0s and just maybe, maybe someone in ACMA will lift themselves up and grant full unrestricted access to the 6M band for all and sundry at 400W pep but I would not hold my breath.

2 cents.

[VK4WDM]

Perhaps Gary VK4ABW could put his topic to bed by scanning and posting the licence he got from ACMA?

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK3TOM]

We seem to go through this periodically as someone thinks there is an anomoly and the obvious licence rules has to be restated.

SSB CW 100 watts RTTY 30 watts.

PLAIN AS DAY.

Interpret the RTTY anyway you want but the guy who wrote the TLS said RTTY
not PSk
NOT DATA
NOT PACKET


RTTY 30 watts

yes but from what I understand that only applys for stations 120KM / 60KM from Channel 0 for the rest its any emmision 100K wide.

Have sent email to ACMA, asked them to either get some one to post here or permission for the reply to me to be posted, maybe this will fix this thread.

Tom
VK3KST

Or you can wait for a coupla years for us to turn off the CH0s and just maybe, maybe someone in ACMA will lift themselves up and grant full unrestricted access to the 6M band for all and sundry at 400W pep but I would not hold my breath.

2 cents.

[VK4ABW]

Wayne...it won't make any difference and besides you only have to look up Joe's or my callsign on the ACMA website to verify it.
My licence was amended to 400w (rms) cw, ssb and JT65 from 50.0 to 54.MHz. Basically the same as Joe (7JG) but into a high gain system for EME and terrestrial work. Yes.....that is correct, terrestrial work for the non believers. I can legally point it at the horizon

The issues on this forum are 2 separate things and i was only highlighting that it is possible to have your licence amended. My permit includes digital modes under 100hz with 400w keydown. Anything over 100hz wide, normal conditions apply. I could have asked for digital modes over 100hz wide and probably got it but i'm not interested in them.

So as i said before guys, if you are nowhere near channel O, go and get your limitations lifted

enough said.

[VK3TOM]

Recieved my Email today.

Dear Mr Steadman,

Please find below an explanation of Condition 15 and Schedule 2 of the Amateur LCD:

In the band 50.000 – 52.000 MHz – Operation is only permitted if NO interference is caused to the reception of CH0

In addition to the above, in the band 50.000 – 50.300 MHz, operation in Victoria, NSW, QLD and the ACT is ONLY permitted:

a) where the Amateur station is operated at a location
at least 120 km away from a CH0 main station; and
at least 60 km away from a CH0 translator station; and
at least 60 km away from a translator station that has inputs on CH0; and

b) using the following 3 emission modes and related maximum transmitter power

200HA1A / 100 Watts pY
1K12F1D / 30 Watts pY
4K00J3E / 100 Watts pX

NO other emissions are permitted in this band; and

In the band 50.300 - 54.000 MHz, operation is permitted using any emission mode with a necessary bandwidth not exceeding 100kHz.

I hope that clarifies the Licence Conditions for you.

Regards

Janice Carle
Assistant Manager
Licensing Allocations and Information Section
National Licensing and Allocations Branch
Australian Communications & Media Authority

So we can run PSK and the other modes if we want but we will have to all decied on channels for them above 50.300, the WIA band plan will not just work.

Why not In the 52 MHZ Narrow band section 52.220 / 52.225 / 52.230, this would solve our problem.

Tom
VK3KST

[VK4QB]

Hi Guys,
To my way of thinking, If we transmit a signal on a ssb transmitter with speech it is considered SSB. If we say digits in speech is it a digital transmission? Of course it is, we are transmitting digits on a ssb transmission. Therefor it is digital ssb transmission. If we transmit tones on a ssb transmitter then it is a tone ssb transmission. If we transmit 2 tones on a ssb transmitter then it is a 2 tone ssb transmission. It we transmit PSK 31 on a ssb transmitter does our transmitter suddenly change to becoming a digital transmission, NO of course it doesn't. It is still a SSB transmission. NO CHANGE HAS TAKEN PLACE WITH THE TRANSMISSION. The decoding of the transmission is different in that it is now decodied by a computer and is also generated by a computer. Does a morse code transmitter and transmissions change just because we connect a computer to generate and decode the signal. Of course not. The transmission is still the same as is hand generated CW transmitter. There fore being a responsible advanced amateur operator that can think clearly with rationale, I reckon this PSK31 code/decode mode of ssb signals can be used within the regulations for 50 mhz band in the appropriate areas.
Posted in the interests of rationale
Brian 4QB

[VK2ZRH]

Hi Brian,

Your twisted rationale has a certain charm (. . . like, quantum mechanics ).

The issue is the characteristics of the transmitted signal, no matter how it is generated.

Whatever is done between your SSB rig's audio input and the Tx output is irrelevant. It is the resulting transmission that characterises the emission mode.

Two-tone PSK51 input to the SSB Tx audio socket results in 200HA1A output (or 170HA1A, or the like - depending on the S between P and K) at the antenna socket.

Of course, if you put 2-tone PSK audio into the audio input of an AM transmitter . . . the result would be ? . . . a dirty great carrier plus a 2-tone PSK signal on its upper sideband and a 2-tone PSK signal on its lower sideband . . . AM.

Back in the early 1990s, when I served on the then-WIA's Spectrum Management Agency (SMA - now the ACMA) Liaison Committee, this thorny little issue arose in the context of Novice licensees using SSTV, where they were feeding audio from the SSTV generator into the mic input of their SSB rigs. As the defined transmission mode (I forget the alphanumeric designator) was not included in the emission modes list in the Novice Licence Conditions Determination, the SMA ruled they couldn't do it - quite apart from the fact that the Novice exam didn't examine candidates on SSTV technology.

Posted in the interests of untwisting the rationale.

73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH
(and so much for lunch)

[VK3ALB]

Where is the definitive list of Ch0 transmitters and translators? I've have a quick look at the LCD held on the WIA website and schedule 7 of that document says that there are no Ch0 transmitter/translators in Victoria. Is that correct?

[VK4QB]

Thank you Roger,
I am so glad you came in to iron the rationale out. According to VK3KST reply from the ACMA ( see above) of Thursday April 2nd 2009, we are only allowed 100 watts PEP output in the areas noted running PSK31 up to 50.300 mhz, and above 50.3 Mhz its boots and all (legal limit). I think I have unravelled all the technical jargon. to have a clear picture.
Brian 4QB

[VK2ZRH]

To VK3ALB:

The LCD is most likely to be correct as it was issued by the ACMA. Their document, their data.

73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH

[VK4GHZ]

Where is the definitive list of Ch0 transmitters and translators? ...

VK Logger Early Warning list, that's where!

There are only five Ch0s left.
Two primary TXs, and three lower powered TXs;

46.172 46.171665 RTQ0 AUS Toowoomba, QLD Mt Mowbullan QG53TC
46.240 46.239924 ABSN0 AUS Cooma, NSW Nanny Goat Hill QF33NS
46.240 46.240041 ABMN0 AUS Wagga Wagga, NSW Mt Ulandra QF35WE
46.260 46.259400 ABWN0 AUS Narooma, NSW Buckeridge Lookout QF53AT
46.260 46.260118 NEN0 AUS Tamworth, NSW Bald Hill QF58LW

[VK3ALB]

VK Logger Early Warning list, that's where!

Of course, what was I thinking?

Based on that list it seems our 6m operating restriction probably need an overhaul real soon.

[VK2ZRH]

Count me in on that !

73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH

[VK2GOM]

This all does seem a bit contrived, I have to say, regarding PSK on 6m. Are we creating a fuss about an issue that doesn't exist?

There seems to be a possible contradiction that might be proved by technical argument across the myriad documents and the callbook (which most will refer to to quick and easy band info), but how much of this issue is human generated? Sure, we can pull apart what PSK actually is from a technical point of view and then structure an argument for or against it being allowed, but surely my nice clean 10W of ultra-narrow PSK will cause less havoc on 6m SSB than some of the splattery SSB DX-chasing signals I've heard. If only more people would give PSK a try - it really is a spectrum-friendly emission.

Incidentally, licensing condx were far simpler back in G-land where I came from. No ambiguity, and the rules worked as guidance for wise men and instruction of idiots (as they old adage goes). 'All modes' simply meant all modes, not 'some'!

73 - Rob VK2GOM

[VK2ZRH]

Hmmm. I think you may need to read the Licence Conditions Determination (LCD), Rob. It states the "rules" that apply in Australia.

As for the pros and cons of PSK . . . well, that's for individuals to decide for themselves.

73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH

[vk3six]

This all does seem a bit contrived,.......
Yes by VK1RX years ago and FTAC to give an olive branch to the whinging hams who said what about RTTY?


Re restoration of full 6M band east coast.

They are turning OFF the MAINS like CH1 and CH0.
But Narrooma and COOMA and TAMWORTH could stay on for 4 more years.
TAMWORTH might go as its commercial.
Narooma and Cooma are ABC T/L.

[VK4QB]

Hi Guys,
If you all read the ruling given to VK3KST on page 2 of this topic, it is quite clear ( in among the garbage ). IF however we think that it is a lot of garbage, then so be it. We cannot change their rulings, and we MUST operate as they dictate. We can however do what other hams (4ABW is one) have done and that is ask for an amendment to your licence to use full power in those areas effected. There are a lot of us on the eastern seaboard that are more than 120 and 60 klm away from Channel 0 stations. If they get too many applications to amend say 50 % of the amateurs they MAY reappraise their ruling on the limitations. It is rather peculiar that the WIA Band plan and the ACMA 6 metre band requirements dont seem to coinside ? Our rules are those of the ACMA not the band plan of the WIA.If we go outside the ACMA rules we only lose our licence. If that doen't coinside with the band plan then somebody down at the WIA will have to change things too coinside.
QED
Brian 4QB

[VK2GOM]

So it looks like we have to adopt a frequency above 50.300 MHz where we can have some fun on PSK31. At least for inter-VK working. With a bit of publicity, the DX might even come looking for us!

Any thoughts?

73 - Rob VK2GOM.