THE WORTH OF BEACONS

[vk3six]

VK3RMV is being turned of.

[VK4GHZ]

The solution is quite easy.
Rather than try and move a world-wide network (good luck, there!), move VK3RMV +/-.
If the WIA are keeping up with current events, nobody should not have an issue with this, and the process just becomes a formality.
It's a matter of just getting on with it.

On a side issue, I wouldn't classify WSPR as a useful beacon network... but more of a novelty, that will no doubt amuse some.
How does logging an unrealistically low powered signal relate to real world operating?
It doesn't... unless you are expecting to make comparable contacts with JT65 etc type modes, or a true QRP operator.

Logging a 1W signal long path everyday becomes a pointless exercise, after a while.
From what I have seen, the WSPR system is purely historical information.
Whilst this may become useful for future planning, as far as a real-time heads-up, it fails.

IMO, as far as making real CW/phone contacts is concerned, if you cannot hear another ham station or beacon in real-time with your own ears, then what's the point of these WSPR spots?

[vk3six]

And who does all the work.

and gets all the grief.


VK3RMV is OFF

[VK2GOM]

Hi Adam,

I find the WSPR weak signal network intriguing. I've been running it for a couple of months now. It's enabled me to conducts all sorts of experiments on the effectiveness of limited wire antennas, both indoor and draped out of the window. My QTH is not antenna friendly, so WSPR is great for me here. It's incredibly interesting to watch propagation change, develop, and swing. The real time map and constantly updated database gives up-top-the-minute information.

I don't think it's a "pointless exercise", as you put it, at all - from my point of view it's scientific, clever, and interesting. I often look over data to find correlations between who heard who/when and SNR figures etc. I am running a long term experiment with a GW4 friend, and looking for patterns in Australia / UK openings.

The same "pointless exercise" you mention could be directed to any facet of amateur radio... CW? Just phone someone! SSB? Just phone someone! Data modes or SSTV? Just send them an email!

Each amateur has their own interests in different areas, and undertakes what fits in with their life schedule, equipment, and QTH limitations. Without WSPR I would not be very active 'on air' at all.

Conversely, I don't much care for beacons (or even 6m!), but I don't go out of my way to denigrate them.

73 and Merry Christmas - Rob VK2GOM / G0MOH

[ZL1RS]

Firstly, a big thanks for your work on and contributions to the VK3RMV beacon Steve. Hams and SWLs with an interest in 6M really appreciate the 6M beacon networks worldwide and the work of their trustees/sponsors.

Rather than try and move a world-wide network (good luck, there!), move VK3RMV +/-.

Is there a need to move anything? As explained in the e-mails included with Steve's original posting above, WSPR on "50.293" is actually being transmitted on 50.2945 which is 1KHz away from VK3RMV's licensed frequency. Most hams and SWLs listening to VK3RMV's CW signal should have no problem separating them ... same for receiving VK3RMH ... same for receiving WSPR. There appears to be room for all, but there are varying opinions ... see a commentary at http://vk1od.net/blog/?p=471

With the big TV indicators due to disappear as mentioned elsewhere in the Forum ( viewtopic.php?f=47&t=229&p=8643&hilit=indicators#p8643 ), will digital modes give an opportunity to establish a more effective/efficient 6M beacon network?

My limited WSPR experience tells me that a WSPR ID can be received at 10-15dB less signal than a CW signal ID can be read (depending on one's weak signal CW skill and ears ... I'm at the 15dB end because, as my children take great delight in reminding me, I am becoming a deaf old coot ), so on average a 10 watt WSPR beacon has similar "reaching power" as a 200W CW beacon ... which power bill a beacon sponsor would prefer? Many 6M ham stations have a CW/SSB erp in excess of 200W (some more so than others ) so the situation is somewhat re-balanced for QSOs.

There are already some VHF dual mode CW/WSPR and CW/JT65 beacons in operation: http://www.gb3vhf.co.uk/gb3vhf_press_release.html (and more including 6M with a google search).

On the down side, WSPR is a "slow mode" and not so useful for instantaneous propagation monitoring with the vagarities of fast changing 6M propagation, but weak signal amateur radio digital modes are a relatively early development and may improve with future developments ... and no doubt be subject to the same "lively debates" as AM vs. SSB (remember that from the 70's!) and CW EME vs. Digital/JT65 EME

Spectrum Lab etc can detect CW beacons and indicators under the noise, but a positive ID is something else ... accurate frequency determination is a very good indication, but not a positive ID.

Like my old boss used to say ... the only thing constant is change!

73, Bob ZL1RS

[vk3six]

OFF AIR UFN

[ZL1RS]

The carrier frequency of VK3RMH is at 50.2951 according to the beacon info on this logger, and the WSPR signal from operation on "50.293" is at 50.2945 ... 600Hz difference.

[vk3six]

All these useless CW reports, we need to cull them

I put it to the forum that without these useless beacons your 6M rig would be useless

Why do you think beacosn have been around for 50 years.

get real

WSPR cannot and will not take the place of good old fashioned CW dinosaurs that clunk away 24/7

sorry but thats the way I see it.


If you dont like it go buy a PC or a laptop run it 24/7
and fill our 6M RX with digital noise and spurs
and all go WSPR

Stick that in your carbon foot print.

And dont bother to claim a digital WJST record in VK they dont count.

So whats the point?


VK LOGGER: 6M

12-Dec 04:01 ZL3ADC >> E51USA in BG08 on 50.0510 BCN 519 > RE66HM @ 3552.0km 55°
in and out of noise
12-Dec 03:58 VK3SIX >> E51USA in BG08 on 50.0510 BCN 539 > QF02WI @ 5850.8km 89°
12-Dec 03:57 VK3SIX >> ZL1NX in RF73HD on 50.1100 CW 539 > QF02WI @ 2893.5km 98°
12-Dec 03:39 ZL2DX >> E51USA in BG08CT on 50.0510 BCN 559 > RE78RR @ 3219.3km 54°
12-Dec 03:24 VK3FI > VK7RST in QE37PB on 50.2970 BCN 599 > QF15CT @ 1066.2km 165°

12-Dec 03:21 A35A >> E51USA/B in BG08CT on 50.0510 BCN 559 > AH20TE @ 1525.0km 98°
12-Dec 03:19 VK5KAA > VK7AAD in QE38EL on 50.1500 SSB 59 > PF94IW @ 979.6km 139°
tks Dave for the nice contact
12-Dec 02:59 ZL1RS >> VK3RMV in QF02WH on 50.2937 BCN 539 > RF64VS @ 2860.1km 255°
12-Dec 02:54 VK5ACY > VK7RAE in QE38DU on 50.0570 BCN 599 > PF94GV @ 956.7km 137°
12-Dec 02:51 VK3SIX > VK3LY in QF03UP on 50.1100 SSB 53 > QF02WI @ 146.6km 355°
backscatter working Zl2WHO
12-Dec 02:47 VK5KAA >> ZL2WHO in RE79TP on 50.1100 SSB 51 > PF94IW @ 3280.9km 111°
with qsb
12-Dec 02:42 VK4CC > VK7GK in QE37 on 52.1300 SSB 57 > QG62NI @ 1739.4km 197°
12-Dec 02:40 VK5ALX > VK7RAE in QE38DU on 50.0570 BCN 539 > PF86SX @ 1192.1km 142°
53 one minute barely audible the next
12-Dec 02:38 VK2BLS > VK7RST in QE37PB on 50.2970 BCN 579 > QF55KK @ 977.8km 197°
qsb'ing up to s7

[VK7XX]

Hello Steve. The subject that you have chosen for this thread is "The worth of Beacons" and, so that I stay "on subject" for a short time, would like to say that I think that beacons are VERY worthwhile, be they on 6 metres or on other bands. The people who implement them, yourself and hundreds of others, do perform a great service to the ham DXing community and I for one thank you for your efforts.

That said, what I find EXTREMELY annoying is your incessant ranting about it in the Logger. I am pleased that you have started this thread because the forum is the place for those rantings, not the logger.

As for WSPR, I fired up the software once, had a listen and, can see a use for it although, why they decided to run it in amoung the beacons does leave one wondering....


73