Heat sinks and IR digital thermometers

[VK4GHZ]

Hi all

I am looking into being able to measure temperatures of PA heat sinks.
Unfortunately, not winning Lotto last Saturday rules out being able to purchase a proper thermal imaging camera.

On eBay (and most likely elsewhere), we find all sorts of non-contact IR thermometers.

A "bee knees" model, with adjustable emissivity (highly desirable), fast response time (~150mS), USB port, and data logging software: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/110768615376.
It also comes with a tripod for locked off measurements, and a set of thermocouple probes for contact measurements.
The ability to log on a PC is attractive to profile the temperature of a PA in various real-world operating conditions.
Whilst a thermal image is interesting to look at, I'm really interested in the actual temperature values.

Cheap end of town: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251388265760
There's no point comparing chalk and cheese, and tend to consider these to be novelty value only.

Does anyone have any experience with any of these type of devices in ham radio applications?

[VK2HRX]

I bought one of the real cheap ones as I was interested in knowing the temp of the heat sink/case of my FTM350. The FTM350 is installed in the dash of my vehicle and impossible to get to easily so a point and shoot device that I could use from inside the glove box was what I wanted. The $5 cheapie operated and its measurments were believable. However I don't have anything to compare it to so it is hard to give any definative assesment. My guess is that measuring temp is pretty straight forward and it would be hard to get it to far wrong at the level of accuacy I was needing.

My Fluke does temp with a contact probe and can log it. I'd use this if I was particular about the results.

[VK3ZAZ]

depends on colour
I use temp probes using laser on rigid line and rigid elbows and copper water lines to DTV txers
we paint a matt black patch on them for laser otherwise value read is incorrect, also angle is important right angles.
2 cents

[VK4GHZ]

I've read, a common trick for users of the cheap thermometers (that have a non-adjustable emissivity of 0.95) if spraying some black paint onto the item being measured is not feasible, then place a strip of masking tape on the surface.
Of course, allowing time for the tape to reach the same temperature as the surface it's stuck to.

[VK2GOM]

Why not just use a K type thermocouple bonded with the proper ceramic epoxy to the heatsink? At a pinch, you can even use sticky Aluminium or Copper tape.

Most multimeters these days handle thermocouple inputs.

73 - Rob VK2GOM / GW0MOH

[VK2OMD]

I've read, a common trick for users of the cheap thermometers (that have a non-adjustable emissivity of 0.95) if spraying some black paint onto the item being measured is not feasible, then place a strip of masking tape on the surface.
Of course, allowing time for the tape to reach the same temperature as the surface it's stuck to.

Bit of black vinyl electrical tape isn't too bad either.

Owen

[VK2OMD]

Why not just use a K type thermocouple bonded with the proper ceramic epoxy to the heatsink? At a pinch, you can even use sticky Aluminium or Copper tape.

Most multimeters these days handle thermocouple inputs.

73 - Rob VK2GOM / GW0MOH

For a temporary measurement, a bit of grease or a dot of oil is fine as a thermal bond for a bare K TC. You can get small tubes of thermally conductive adhesive for permanent installation.

Keep in mind that some instruments with two TC inputs share a common terminal between them, and if it has a USB interface, that may be bonded as well. Dual sensors are good for measuring increase in air temperature from inlet to outlet.

I use K TCs a lot, they are excellent for a lot of heatsink related measurements.

But so are non-contact IR thermometers and thermal imaging cameras... each have their strengths for different things.

Owen

[VK2LK]

Hi Adam,

You don't need to win lottery - FLIR are releasing a thermal camera for the iPhone 5 soon - $350US.

http://recombu.com/mobile/news/flir-one ... 19943.html

Not sure on its thermal accuracy but it's apparently got a 100 meter range

[VK4GHZ]

FLIR are releasing a thermal camera for the iPhone 5 soon - $350US...

Hi Matt

Not an iPhone user.
Although the USA is iPhone centric, Americans are slow to react to the fact that Android is the leading platform now, and that Samsung alone sell more handsets than Apple.

I did come across the FLIR-ONE add on this morning.
Looks interesting... if you're an iPhone user.
I've sent them an enquiry asking if they will have a Samsung Galaxy variant - not expecting a reply. You rarely do from these outfits.

It also explains why this RH Workshop smart phone thermal camera add on gives the appearance of being dead and buried.
On their support forum, the creator said the 2-sensor variant was only a few months away.
That was 6 months ago.
The FLIR-ONE will probably be the death knell for the IR-Blue device, but I liked the way the IR-Blue reported temperature on the screen as well.
An all-in-one poor mans' thermal imaging camera/thermometer, albeit low resolution imagery.

[VK2LK]

Hi Adam,

From the link I posted above:-

The iPhone version of the FLIR ONE goes on sale internationally this spring with an Android version planned for launch later in the year.

Hopefully it works with your device. The specs says that it can detect differentials of 0.1ºF and is accurate to within 2ºC (not bad) and has a temperature readout with a crosshair target.

Cheers,
Matt

[VK2HRX]

The iPhone version of the FLIR ONE goes on sale internationally this spring with an Android version planned for launch later in the year.

,
Matt

Should be excellent fun on the club scene. Let's wait for the privacy issues to surface!

PS: Club = disco for the older folk.

[VK4APN]

Hi all

I am looking into being able to measure temperatures of PA heat sinks.
Unfortunately, not winning Lotto last Saturday rules out being able to purchase a proper thermal imaging camera.

On eBay (and most likely elsewhere), we find all sorts of non-contact IR thermometers.

A "bee knees" model, with adjustable emissivity (highly desirable), fast response time (~150mS), USB port, and data logging software: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/110768615376.
It also comes with a tripod for locked off measurements, and a set of thermocouple probes for contact measurements.
The ability to log on a PC is attractive to profile the temperature of a PA in various real-world operating conditions.
Whilst a thermal image is interesting to look at, I'm really interested in the actual temperature values.

Cheap end of town: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251388265760
There's no point comparing chalk and cheese, and tend to consider these to be novelty value only.

Does anyone have any experience with any of these type of devices in ham radio applications?

My bench PSU has one of these attached to the heat sink permanently.

http://au.element14.com/maxim-integrate ... dp/1187948

The temperature is constantly displayed and triggers fan operation if needed.

With your vastly superior programming skills as evidenced by your past micro projects it would be easy peasy to achieve?

Just a thought.

[VK2OMD]

...
My bench PSU has one of these attached to the heat sink permanently.

http://au.element14.com/maxim-integrate ... dp/1187948

The temperature is constantly displayed and triggers fan operation if needed.

There are a bunch of things you can use for a fan controller.

In the past I published a design and code for a generic fan controller for an ATTiny in the past which could use any of:

LM35;
LM335;
NTE7225;
NTC thermistor; and
ordinary silicon diode.

Above, a 1N4007 (leads clipped very short to reduce thermal inertia) attached to the heatsink with thermal adhesive.

Owen

[VK4GHZ]

It exists!



Cannot wait for the Android version to come out!

[VK2OMD]

It exists!
...
Cannot wait for the Android version to come out!

Edited as it has been grossly misinterpreted... Owen

[VK4GHZ]

Some question to explore:

Owen, questions like these are best directed to the manufacturer?

To balance out any unrealistic expectations, (and potential ongoing poo pooing of devices like this), remember it's aimed at the consumer market, not at industrial/scientific/research markets.
It has a US$349 price point.
Not US$8,995 like some of the professional grade FLIR instruments.

Therefore, YMMV.

[VK4APN]

Owen, questions like these are best directed to the manufacturer?

To balance out any unrealistic expectations, (and potential ongoing poo pooing of devices like this), remember it's aimed at the consumer market, not at industrial/scientific/research markets.
It has a US$349 price point.
Not US$8,995 like some of the professional grade FLIR instruments.

Therefore, YMMV.

YMMV? OMG FWIW AFAICS OH! WTF

All too hard to follow...... LOL

[VK4GHZ]

[VK4GHZ]

OK, it's finally happening.

http://www.flir.com.hk/flirone/content/?id=62910

FLIR ONE (Next gen) starts shipping mid August 2015.



I see lots of applications for around the house and electronics, and ready to pull the trigger and get one.
Looking for reasons NOT to get one, but I can't really find any... except for the crappy USD$ exchange rate now.