How big a change is needed to stop the apathy ?

[VK4TS]

VHF UHF Contesting - how can we give it a shot in the arm ?

Is it ham radio that needs the shot in the arm ? Inactive repeaters , few stations on most bands, stations with no antennae....

Is it too late to reverse the trend ?

Does VHF UHF contesting need to categorise Microwave and the rest ?

Has the Microwave focus disenfranchised too many ?

Why don't F Calls partake ?

Is the Dx based scoring fundamentally flawed - Should it score only after 100 km ? And no more after 1000km ? Something like base score is ten points and then going up after 100 km and no points for under 25km ?

Should the field days be renamed Activity Days and all stations compete in the same categories ? Hilltoppers would be not unlike expeditions in HF contests... and have that advantage of location location location

[VK3ZAZ]

Wheelbarrows again.

Turn off the internet and then people might traditionally use the bands to exchange info.
Instead of loggers and clusters
You can't have it both ways.
Out here the field day stations are the same old same old
exchanging the same old same old from same old locations
nothing new no new grids whatever.
I stay home I listen out and find the remote stations city centric.

SOTA is doing better than field days IMO



Repeaters, as I drive to my work sites over 200-300k trips pass thru RWV RWU RMW RWL RPC hear nil only active is 5RMG and sometimes 147.100 IRLP
All that $$$ invested and licences for what?
Occasional itinerant use.

[VK3PCW]

RWL

If you are referring to RWL-2m, yep it's cactus has some issue. Apparently the repeater itself is going to be swapped over - I don't know if this is correct, just what I heard - either way I doubt it will fix the issue as it's not with the repeater (tx/rx) itself.

RWL 70 isn't fairing much better, there is a loose connection somewhere in the works, when it's windy it carries on like a pork chop spasmodically.

[VK3PCW]

VHF UHF Contesting - how can we give it a shot in the arm ? Why don't F Calls partake ?

The reasons could be many. Although I have listened and made contact with a few special event stations and there is always a good number of F-Calls in the mix on these in my experience on VHF/UHF FM.

I've had a few 'post contest' discussions on this with other operators. Even to the point of suggestion a field day aimed more towards F-Calls.

I can remember when I was an F-Call doing my first field days, I was lucky enough to be able to buy a 2m SSB rig cheap enough (still expensive enough to be out of reach of a lot all the same) and had a fellow amateur construct a yagi for me and many others from the club give me tips and pointers. I was very fortunate in being a member of a club in which many of the members are very experienced field day operators. All the same it is a lot of money to get up a capable SSB station on VHF/UHF, even if you are buying second hand equipment. A lot of the younger F-Calls may be able to talk Dad or Mum (or both) into going camping on some hill for a weekend, the chances of talking them into forking out $$$ for a SSB capable VHF/UHF station may be an entirely different thing.

Availability of SSB equipment and cost would have to be a major factor in this, especially for the younger operators and the older ones on a pension. It can be pretty hard to justify spending $1000+ on a new radio just to compete in contests. Then you have Yagi's and coax to add into the cost factor. It can become rather expensive. Remember guys not everyone has the ability or resources to build antennas or even another amateur to give them a bit of encouragement and point them in the right direction.

I commented in another forum here about an FM only section for the VHF/UHF field days. This would give those on leaner budgets a good stepping stone into the VHF/UHF field days, kind of like the F-Call licence being a stepping stone into amateur radio. I can't speak for other areas, but in Victoria the most prominent FM station during the VHF/UHF field days would have to be VK3ER, why can't others follow their lead?

Let's face it, an F-Call get's their licence they are going to buy typically one of two radios - A HF or a VHF/UHF FM, I would hazard a guess the latter would be in the higher numbers. So why not take advantage of this to boost participation in field days and have an FM section available. Surely it wouldn't be that hard to incorporate.

From the F-Calls I talk to and even those with Standard and Advanced licences there are two strains of reasoning why they don't participate I commonly hear:

1. I've only got FM gear, their all on SSB.
2. I can't afford SSB gear and yagi's.
Both are usually strung together in the same sentence...

So to me it seems pretty straight forward, add an FM section to the field days and promote it like you stole it!

[VK3MIX]

In my area there is only one guy with most of the gear. He is not available every weekend due to kids and xyl working. He tries to get the weekends of the contests free but most of the time it doesn't work out. Therefore as a club we don't get to participate in these contests.

[VK3ZAZ]

In my area there is only one guy with most of the gear. He is not available every weekend due to kids and xyl working. He tries to get the weekends of the contests free but most of the time it doesn't work out. Therefore as a club we don't get to participate in these contests.

Agree

I admire TS/WIA in trying to motivate operators, but the move is flawed and based on assumptions that everyone is in some way interested, have the time to spare and the gear.
The point is different strokes different folks.
I was never told in my 50 years of ham radio how I should operate or what I should participate in
I chose my own level.
I think generally ham ops choose their own level.
And they are really not all that interested.
And may choose to spend time with family on weekends.
Also that in case of western VIC we have lost many hams now SK.
And they have not been replaced in any quantity.

[VK4ADC]

VHF UHF Contesting - how can we give it a shot in the arm ?

Is it ham radio that needs the shot in the arm ? Inactive repeaters , few stations on most bands, stations with no antennae....

Is it too late to reverse the trend ?

Does VHF UHF contesting need to categorise Microwave and the rest ?

Has the Microwave focus disenfranchised too many ?

Why don't F Calls partake ?

Is the Dx based scoring fundamentally flawed - Should it score only after 100 km ? And no more after 1000km ? Something like base score is ten points and then going up after 100 km and no points for under 25km ?

Should the field days be renamed Activity Days and all stations compete in the same categories ? Hilltoppers would be not unlike expeditions in HF contests... and have that advantage of location location location

A further sign of the apathy in SE VK4 was evident during the Spring & Summer FDs. The Sunshine Coast ARC normally operate in FDs as VK4WIS from a site near Maleny - these times had nil activity except for a couple of individuals who didn't operate under the club callsign. In a similar way, The City of Brisbane Radio Society normally has multiple operators under the VK4WIE call and for these events, again, just a couple of operators under their own calls. Both of these clubs have quite a few members but only a couple from each club participated.

I noted just 15 VK4 callsigns during the Saturday segment of the Summer FD, covering an area from Hervey Bay to the Qld/NSW border, mostly SSB on 6/2/70/23 but a few on FM.

My FD arrangements are based on a multiband transceiver (HF/6/2/70) and I utilise the memories option to preset to the SSB frequencies starting at .150 on each VHF/UHF band plus some 5 and 10 KHz points above that (typically up to .190) then put in the simplex FM frequencies eg 52525, 146500, 146.550 etc, 439.000 such that all I need do to QSY to another frequency(/mode) is to rotate the memory channel knob. I also included 52.100 and 52.150 to make it easy to work the Standard calls. So yes, I operate SSB and FM on 6/2/70 during FDs and just occasionally catch an F-call on FM, one that might otherwise "escape".

A second multiband transceiver is used as a common IF for the 1296, 2403, 3400 , 5760 and 10368 bands and, again, I use preset memories for the common frequencies we use during such events ( XXXX.150, .160, .170, .175 etc ) but I can similtaneously operate on both radios as the IF was chosen to be in the 145.XX segment and doesn't get clobbered by the operations on 144.150/160/170 SSB.

The apathy is not just to participating in the event but also in submitting a log - even if only for one or two contacts. Maybe it doesn't seem worthwhile for maybe less than 100 contest points ?????

"Is the Dx based scoring fundamentally flawed - Should it score only after 100 km ? And no more after 1000km ? " is a fundamentally flawed statement as most distances on VHF & UHF are less than 100KM as many of the home stations within even a big city are less than 100KM apart and many portable stations only go to nearby hills so are therefore still in the city and still less than 100KM apart. I can see a log for 75 contacts on VHF/UHF having only basic points and no distance bonuses. Is that what we are looking for to achieve more activity ??

The FD participation level in SE VK4 has dropped over the last few years - just check the published results - and I can't see any real way of it being improved. Not in my crystal ball anyway. Maybe my true apathy is showing through.

[VK3ALB]

Where is the apathy Trent?

Notwithstanding there seems to be "something" going on in VK4 I think the contest is staying reasonably stable.
How many entrants are there really?

Considering the seemingly specialized nature of operation above 50MHz, perhaps 200 participants across the country isn't too bad?

Are there figures to show how many VK operators participate in HF contests? Let's pick the Oceania, John Moyle and VK-ZL contest as representative of "Australian" HF contests.

Are they comparable with the VHF/UHF FD, or the Ross Hull contest? On that point, surely the RH contests need resurrecting more than the VHF/UHF FD?

Is the participation rate for VK operators in "Australian" HF contests and different from participation rates for VK operators in the VHF/UHF FD?

What is the submission rate for logs compared to participation in rate in each of the contests?



Where are all the F calls?

I've often wondered why more F calls don't participate in the FD and asked that very question here on many occassions. I got no answers, perhaps you'll be luckier. I can tell you that a few years ago here in Geelong at least three F calls had a decent go and did a very good job of it. In those days the highest scoring F call got a certificate but somehow that didn't inspire others to join in.

Granted that doesn't happen any more. Why? Personally I'd like to think it's because the other two were beaten by a girl but that isn't P.C. and would be unfair to all three of them.



Not enough FM operation???

Some have mentioned FM as a possible reason why there are not more participants in the VHF/UHF FD. I don't know how accurate that is but I certainly don't understand this reasoning.

There are plenty of hams out there with HF & VHF/UHF capable radios such as IC706, IC7000, IC7100, TS2000, FT857, FT897, even FT817 - need I go on? I know there are plenty of radios that only have HF or HF/6m but surely the owners of those radios made a choice and 2m/70cm must not have been high on the priority list.

All of these radios cost in the region of $600 to $1500 depending on where they were bought. All of them are SSB capable. SSB has a power and reach advantage over FM and AM. SSB is king on HF, Why is it only above 50MHz that people shy away from SSB operation? With todays radio technology SSB on VHF/UHF is no different to HF. Turn on the radio, hello statue, contact completed. Antennas for VHF/UHF are no more difficult to construct that some HF antennas - in fact making antennas is cheap period!


Finally, VK3OT makes some very good points.

[VK4DU]

Is there a general downturn in activity?

I wonder.

Certainly, repeaters are very quiet. Apart from a couple of die hards (F calls, I might add - good on them), the 10-odd 70cm repeaters in Australia's biggest city are very quiet.

30 years ago, repeaters were flat out here, all day.

Are there less amateurs with a job that requires them to drive around?

Are there less amateurs with mobile rigs?

Are there less amateurs, period?

[VK7ZA]

I second VK3PCW's reasoning as its my position at the moment to a large extent. Been licensed for a couple of years, have a mobile FM rig in the car, and looking for my first HF radio. Most of the options that suit me are 6M and above. Would be keen to have a crack on the field days, but don't want to buy a different radio with 2m SSB just for a couple of days a year.

Regarding repeater usage, one of the great things about Tas is the linked repeater network that people have done very well setting up across the state, so we're not restricted to talking to people in the single repeater coverage. Even in our rather sparsely populated state, there's generally someone to answer your call.

[VK7DB]

I second VK3PCW's reasoning as its my position at the moment to a large extent. Been licensed for a couple of years, have a mobile FM rig in the car, and looking for my first HF radio. Most of the options that suit me are 6M and above. Would be keen to have a crack on the field days, but don't want to buy a different radio with 2m SSB just for a couple of days a year.

Regarding repeater usage, one of the great things about Tas is the linked repeater network that people have done very well setting up across the state, so we're not restricted to talking to people in the single repeater coverage. Even in our rather sparsely populated state, there's generally someone to answer your call.

The linked repeater network does work very well, and I was using part of it just today mobile at Swansea.

I have been working with Matt VK3VS as the first guinea pig for the new VK repeater link system he has been developing, and its coming together quite nicely. Today on the return trip from Swansea I linked 7RMD 70cm to VK7HA's simplex node and had a chat.. We also have a node on VK7RMD 6m. For those interested, details can be found at http://www.nevarc.net.au/vknetwork/inde ... =Main+page and http://status.nevarc.net.au/ This new system has worked well to create extra activity on our repeaters, particularly 70cm that can sit idle for months on end.

[VK4TS]

Considering the seemingly specialized nature of operation above 50MHz, perhaps 200 participants across the country isn't too bad?

RD contest had 1120 callsigns in the logs in the current year down from 1375 in the previous year.. - It is more about mobilisation of the amateur populace, than sledging and postulating about hidden agendae..

[VK3ALB]

Wow, that's quite a bit more than 200 but how many logs were submitted? What about the other contests, how did they fare and how many VK callsigns in the logs actually ended up submitting logs.

[VK4TS]

Typical Stations to logs is ratio is 5:1

Ross Hull this year had 12 submitted logs,RD had 211 submitted logs, JMFD 179 submitted logs,VHF/UHF summer 61 logs out of 201...

Bearing in mind Multi Op stations throw those figures out a bit....

[VK3ALB]

Yep, I had a figure in mind of 20% to 25% return on log submissions. It doesn't seem to matter what the contest is, results are about the same. What about Oceania last year? I think one group may have skewed the results slightly. Like you said, positive enthusiastic encouragement does make a difference.

And just in case you're suggesting I was postulating a hidden agenda, no I wasn't but you can't help but notice that Adam and a few others are very vocal about the lack of activity in VK4, even tonight, the ever positive VK4ADC made mention of it. I don't know what's going on but that's not a good sign.

[VK4TS]

That's it in a nutshell Lou and I think it is spreading and has been for years. We need to reverse the trend - I don't think that the activity is spread....there are limits to that...The hobby enthusiasts are using other media..

What will rekindle AR ? Mesh networks ? Solely for ham use ? Is the RF wall in the cities turning many off even trying HF ?

Do we need clubs to actively construct remote HF VHF UHF Stations ?

Do these remote stations need to cover 6 2 n 70 with SSB inputs to repeater networks ? Do we need to remove the veil of mystery surrounding SSB above 10M ?

I think its a case of all of the above - People work in groups best when there are projects and projects that will advantage the group long term will make clubs more active and hopefully long term rekindle the bands...

[VK4ADC]

Lou

Just love the tag line :

Don't make others responsible for your enjoyment of the hobby - AR p28 March 2015

It is oh-so-true.

I guess many amateurs, regardless of licence class, do plenty of AR. You have only to tune across 80 / 40 / 20 at various times of the day/night to see how many VK callsigns you can hear. So maybe it is not the amateur population at large is apathetic but many simply have no interest in any form of contesting (including FDs) unless they are likely to land a new DXCC entity. They may be very active in their workshops and not spend much time on-air - that includes me much of the time - but as my XYL says, I am quite competitive so things like contesting/FDs are a source of enjoyment to me personally, more-so now I have time to prepare and participate.

The FD gear I use is Icom IC706, IC706Mk2G & a new IC7000 and all are multimode and multiband but that is a relatively recent state. I used to use an old Kenwood TR751 2M multimode to drive my microwave gear but now use the 706 leaving the Mk2G and now the 7000 (as of last year when the Mk2G looked to be uneconomical to repair) for HF/VHF/UHF. The old Kenwood still goes along for the ride just in case I have microwave IF problems.

The prices on the second hand gear seem to be artificially high and that is probably what stops F-calls (and others also with a restricted budget) from making the transition to SSB on VHF & UHF.

I don't necessarily agree with the "People work in groups best when there are projects and projects that will advantage the group long term will make clubs more active and hopefully long term rekindle the bands..." as there are many who like to do their own thing at their own rate, regardless of whether the outcome benefits the club. My experience as a club member in previous times is probably still accurate : 20% (or less) of the members do 80% of the work, many of the others simply "work" their mouths.

I might add that VKLogger is an indicator of those who are interested in other than simple ragchewing. Do they visit here, post here ?? If neither then where are they finding out their info ???

[VK2XV]

Apathy - A complete lack of emotion or motivation, whether directed towards a person, activity, or object.

Commonly misused by individuals to describe the behaviour of people who are not interested in what floats THEIR boat...

I have zero interest in contests, but I am not an apathetic person - I am passionate about many things. There are, however, many things I have no interest in - examples are...

1. Contests for the sake of contests - I would much rather be 1,000,000th in the world at understanding the universe than world champion at tiddlywinks.
2. 'Reality' TV shows - especially if populated with celebrities ('Reality TV' - an oxymoron for sure).
3. Video games - striving for a high score in some fantasy construct (although I do play against my grandchildren to show them that Grandpa can still cut the mustard..)
4. Politics - show business for ugly bubble heads.
5. Religion
6. ... and the like...

None of this shows I am apathetic.

I first entered the magic world of radio (and it is still magic to me after 50-odd years) via my ham licence and 6M. Sadly, activity on that band has descended into somewhat of a cult pursuit - with a lot of energy spent telling one another what they are doing wrong - a complete inversion of my early 6M experience. Yes - I can all hear you say "That old and worn whinge". But the question is, is it true. I remember with amusement a discussion at a design meeting where I detailed how the design parameters from Marketing violated the laws of physics. The response was "Oh - not that old chestnut again...".

There is a lot of disparagement of those who don't show the same interest/opinion as this or that group. No wonder there is a reluctance to participate.

In any case my own personal opinion is that amateur radio is, sadly, dying a slow death brought about by more vibrant pursuits available for the young (and young-at-heart) technically minded individual. Arguing and/or changing contest rules is, to me, just re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic - sorry if that is offensive.

So what is the answer for amateur radio ? - well, I don't know. When you are furiously paddling upstream at 5 kmh in a river flowing at 6 kmh there might not be an answer.

But what I do believe is that the decline can be slowed (but not stopped) by examining the environment in which these other competing pursuits exist and thrive. Then, it seems to me, a sensible action is to try and recreate those environments around amateur radio. That is, find out what the younger generation thinks is, forgive me, 'cool' and then try and cast amateur radio in that light. Trying convince the younger generation that what we OFs have done for years is 'cool' is a folly.

In the interim, IMO, a focus on Foundation Licence activities would be a positive thing. Separate out activities/certificates/events such they are for Foundation Licencees only (but supported positively by other grade licencees) - preventing them from being pushed into the background by the other categories (and counteracting the negativity displayed by too many of those would should know better). Have a look at who is doing the work at many clubs - a spotlight on Foundation Licencees would be well deserved in my opinion.

As for my own particular passion - I am almost 100% engaged in Radio Astronomy. In this pursuit I find the challenge I need combined with the magic of radio. I also find that among those individuals engaged in this pursuit there is only a very small number who will waste your time by engaging in argument over minutiae - very important to me...

[VK3KTO]

I must say this post has produced a great number of interesting thoughts, so here are some of mine, regarding an FM only section in field days. There was a time when Novice stations were only allowed FM on 2 & 70, no SSB at all on VHF. This resulted in quite a lot of portable FM activity. Some contests, in those days counted FM and I think AM as well were all counted as seperate modes, resulting in my opinion the pointless exercise of the exchange of numbers in all these modes by stations so equipped, during the same contact. However as I believe most amateures these days have an FM rig of some sort in their car, or at least a hand held, they could take a nice drive to some good location and spend a few hours making some contacts. This could combine a pleasant family outing, as the XYL and harmonics would be able to enjoy a picnic or some other activity. So there is certainly a place for an FM seection in field days, as long as all mode equipped stations were not eligible to enter that section but were able to include the FM contacts in their total score.
73 de Mike VK3KTO

[VK3FM]

Interesting to note the same discussion running more or less parallel on two quite different forums, VKCC and here.

Given opinions are just like backsides, in that we all have them and not all are pretty, here are my thoughts, in precis format (because one could talk about this matter, and amateur radio et al, forever).

Fundamentally, there are two many contests in VK, full stop. There are certainly too many for the available talent, and most are doing badly, or perhaps just so so. None are thriving, and with the current ratio noted above, don't anyone hold their breath that tings are gong to change any time soon. Frankly, they won't.

None of them would survive without the facility of QSO repeats, a good idea to stop an operator from falling asleep but which produce, inevitably, the same old same old - sad but true.

Amateur radio is also one of those hobbies that has many facets available to it, and contests are just a part of this. For instance not all of us like 10 GHz, EchoLink, DX, ragchewing, building, contests, field tripping and all the rest, so it is no wonder the numbers active in the contesting facet of our hobby, and particularly VHF and above contesting, are small. Again, it ain't gonna change, no matter how much angst we bring upon ourselves.

If I were an active member of this small community I would try my hardest to endeavour that whatever contest should survive (thrive!) they are made as interesting as possible - although I have absolutely no idea how this would happen!

In a similiar vein, to wit, the VK/ZL DXing fraternity, a few years ago I did a full scale analysis on how many VK/ZLs there were who were actually active within the DXing facet of our hobby, and analysed many, many contest results to come to the conclusion that the entire VK/ZL DXing fraternity only accounted for some two hundred active souls, with perhaps another one hundred further hams who 'dabbled' from time to time. The numbers were, surprisingly, small. Tiny, even.

So it is with VK/ZL contesting.

Is it good that we are all talking about this issue - I guess so - then again, we have been talking about introducing more young people into the hobby for as long as I have been licensed (1978) - and what was written then could well be written today - just change the dates.

PLEASE - enjoy your facet of the hobby, and have fun - don't spend too much time trying to think of ways to 'frogmarch' those of us into something we, clearly, don't want to do.

Cheers from a small pistol DXer and casual (very casual) contester.

Ernie VK3FM.