HF setup - Equipment choice

[VK2FABS]

What have I jumped into by picking up a F call license? Whilst I have been interested in AR for decades, it just took me this long to find the time to get a license. Whilst picking up local Sydney repeaters is relatively easy with my yaesu HT (though a bit quiet), I am now being drawn by what HF can offer. Earlier I thought that antenna will be the major challenge in setting up a station, now I am a aware that I'll need a lot more, to setup, tune and do the various bits and pieces. The equipment list has just got rather complex. Here, I am interested in hearing your suggestions in setting up a new HF station.

From my end, I am just interested in starting a not too fancy setup (low to mod expenditure). I want to try DX communication before considering other more fancy activities. It'd be ideally be mobile, one that I can take on bushwalks or other outdoor activities. On this, I am thinking of the following,

Power supply: 12V - Maybe secondhand for home use. Not seeing much differentiation b/n the various models but presume stability of the supply and noise is a consideration, similar to supply in hi-fi equipments.

Transceiver: Thinking of a mobile unit. Yaesu FT-817, FT-857, FT-897 or iCOM IC-7000. I am aware that FT-817 and FT-897 can be powered by batteries and FT-817 is 5W only, but I am not sure what real life differences are there b/n FT-817, FT-857 and FT-897 tiered models? Is FT-897 just more convenient or does it allow the user to communicate with a lot more stations that the lower models can't?

SWR Meter: Looks like there's no way of getting around this one when one has to tune DIY antennae. Question is, what's a decent and compact model?

Antenna Tuner: Given my space limitation, it would appear that an antenna tuner is a must to handle the various compact HF antenna designs as well as any technically compromised designs. Is an automatic tuner a worthwhile investment? Model suggestions?

Thanks for any comments and all are appreciated.

[VK7JG]

Hello Weiyun.

Congratulations on getting your Amateur license .

Perhaps a simple G5RV will get you started or if you have the room a half wave dipole on 80/40 to get you started .
Most rigs today have a built in SWR meter I know the FT857 has one and is all you really require .

Get a manual tuning unit ,cheaper and you can see what is going on . Once again if you get a reasonable unit it will have an inbuilt SWR meter .

Power supplies are rather cheap these days and most of them perform reasonably well . A linear supply will be heavier but no noise issues .

Check VK Ham for S/H supplies.


Regards.
Joe
VK7JG

[VK2FABS]

Thanks Joe! Yes, quite excited with the license but I am also deliberately tempering my excitement. I perceive the technical challenges of setting up a functional station in the HF band and recognise the risks of rushing into gears and all.

As in the other thread where I am receiving many helpful advice, a standard HF dipole in open air deployment unfortunately won't work for my constrained inner city space. But I do have an elevated position and is on the top floor with access to the roof space. Will have to go the stealth route on antenna.

[VK3YE]

From my end, I am just interested in starting a not too fancy setup (low to mod expenditure). I want to try DX communication before considering other more fancy activities. It'd be ideally be mobile, one that I can take on bushwalks or other outdoor activities.

Here there's two objectives that are partially competing. DX tends to favour bigger, heavier rigs while bushwalking favours lighter smaller rigs. But if you're content to have 80% of your contacts up to about 1000km and 20% of your contacts as longer distance DX, then a small and light setup will serve you well.

The video below (from about half way in) shows SSB DX contacts with 5 watts on 21 MHz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy728DjgzM8

Transceiver: Thinking of a mobile unit. Yaesu FT-817, FT-857, FT-897 or iCOM IC-7000. I am aware that FT-817 and FT-897 can be powered by batteries and FT-817 is 5W only, but I am not sure what real life differences are there b/n FT-817, FT-857 and FT-897 tiered models? Is FT-897 just more convenient or does it allow the user to communicate with a lot more stations that the lower models can't?

All those radios are pretty similar. Except the FT-817 is only 5w out while the others are 100w out on HF. The FT-817 is best for bushwalking where you're carrying batteries with you since it has lower power consumption on receive. The other rigs are more suited for home and mobile use because they're higher power and draw more current.

SWR Meter: Looks like there's no way of getting around this one when one has to tune DIY antennae. Question is, what's a decent and compact model?

You can get away without one since modern rigs have some form of SWR indication. It's not necessarily accurate but OK to indicate problems with the antenna. Strictly speaking one should measure the SWR at the antenna feedpoint rather than the radio, though this can be same thing if using portable end-feds.

Antenna Tuner: Given my space limitation, it would appear that an antenna tuner is a must to handle the various compact HF antenna designs as well as any technically compromised designs. Is an automatic tuner a worthwhile investment? Model suggestions?

Go manual. An automatic one will be no more efficient. All you need is two old metal variable capacitors, a gladwrap roll and some wire to make your own that is every bit as good as a bought one. Your transceiver can look after the metering needed.

[VK2FABS]

Here there's two objectives that are partially competing. DX tends to favour bigger, heavier rigs while bushwalking favours lighter smaller rigs. But if you're content to have 80% of your contacts up to about 1000km and 20% of your contacts as longer distance DX, then a small and light setup will serve you well.

The video below (from about half way in) shows SSB DX contacts with 5 watts on 21 MHz.

Thanks! I saw a number of your Youtube videos and was quite impressed by them. I liked your demonstration of the variety of antennae you have.

All those radios are pretty similar. Except the FT-817 is only 5w out while the others are 100w out on HF. The FT-817 is best for bushwalking where you're carrying batteries with you since it has lower power consumption on receive. The other rigs are more suited for home and mobile use because they're higher power and draw more current.

So what do the heavy rigs have over these mobile units? Can these portable unit match those heavier desktop rigs when matched with a good antenna? What are the conveniences and functional differences? Shame that AR has retreated so much that there are few walk in shops where one can see and ask questions.

Got your advice on a manual antenna tuner. I'll also read through your articles on the beginner AR page on your site. Looks like they can answer a lot of my questions.

[VK3YE]

So what do the heavy rigs have over these mobile units? Can these portable unit match those heavier desktop rigs when matched with a good antenna? What are the conveniences and functional differences?

The only real difference between the radios is 100w vs 5w, ie 2 s-points difference in power. You will work DX more times with 100w than with 5w. But with a good antenna, good location and good conditions you can still do incredibly well with 5w.

Shame that AR has retreated so much that there are few walk in shops where one can see and ask questions.

We're way better off now. Dealers weren't necessarily unbiased. If you didn't have the particular QST or AR with the review it would have been very hard to find out about rigs. Whereas in 2014 we can go onto eHam and read a hundred user reviews and pop over to YouTube for demonstrations.

The main reason for there being fewer shop-front dealers is shrinking prices and margins - as well as online competition. The equivalent of an FT-897 (which didn't exist in the 1980s) would have cost well over $10 000 in today's money.

[VK5ZD]

The FT857/897 are essentially the same; just different packages. One other difference between them and the FT817 is DSP (817 doesn't have it). It can prove useful in noisy conditions.

[VK2FABS]

Yes, that's what I am thinking too, that a unit like FT-897 could performance match a far more expensive rig going back 20 years. If that's the case, then it should be more than capable enough to serve my needs. I can still remember my old 70s Sony SW receiver with analogue tuning. Was a real struggle. DSP may be worthwhile getting in the FT-857/897. Sounds like there's really no major reason to not invest in one of these portable units. Then the question is, how does one consider Yaesu vs Icom? The fancy color screen on the IC-7000 looked nice and seemed to be able to display significantly more information than the FT-897. Am I being distracted by gimmicks?

[VK3APW]

Hi Paul,
Icom vs Yaesu or Kenwood ??? only a brave man would answer that one

I guess the real answer is that any / all of these radios will work, but what do you want from it, backpack portable, mobile, base use, Field days etc, then there is the price consideration. You need to weigh up what your intended use is, and try to match functionality and preferred price bracket.

My personal thought on a couple of rigs, for what there worth,

FT 817ND, great little portable rig, (think of it as a biggish hand held with HF). But, you cannot expect base station performance from this small radio. However many folk use these for SOTA activations etc, for example Peter 3YE, does great things with his.

FT 897D ( or 857 ) The 897 is promoted as a portable base, and that is a very good description. You can fit internal batteries, has TCXO and DSP as standard, all in all, not a bad rig. The 857 is a 'mobile' version of the 897, if you were going to use it in a car. Great for Field day ops, but I am not sure I would like to carry one of these with batteries, for miles up a hill

IC 7000 Nice radio, smaller, with colour screen etc, a bit more power on 70cm than the Yaesu, is, or about to be discontinued. Nothing to stop you operating it portable, with an external battery.

IC 7100 A very nice radio, once you get over the 'funny looking front panel'. It is very easy to use, with the touch screen, and offers great performance. Great for field days,or home use, not sure about backpack type use as the head does not attach to the main body. For home use, the main unit psu and antennas, can be installed at a distance from the head, with no short comings.

TS 590 This is HF and 6M only, another very nice radio for home/ field day use. For HF, you need to spend a lot more money to get any better performance than what this rig will offer.

I would advise you Paul, to buy your first rig new, from an authorized dealer, and check with the manufacturer first, to ensure you will not end up with a rig that the OEM will not service here. There are 3 party repair organizations though, just be aware of what you are buying.
When you go into it, no radio will do every thing for every body, and suit all tastes.

Hope this helps

Peter vk3apw

[VK2FABS]

Thanks for the detailed review. I guess at the end of the day, all the wants eg. Portable use, are but hypothetical. Until I get on-air, I really won't know what and how I'll enjoy AR. Will have to think hard.

[VK2HRX]

Plenty of happy users out there with all of those radios. You won't go to far wrong if you pick any of them. My first radio for pretty much what you are doing was an FT897D. I've still got it as well as various others from Icom, Yaesu, Alinco, Vertex, Barrett etc etc

Good luck.

[VK2FABS]

Yes, a bit of nitpicking to compare all those units at my stage. I am sure they are all more than capable to satisfy my needs. It's the hypothetical longer term desires and needs that's holding things back. I can just see that n+1 rig cycle setting in with AR too, like bikes in cycling. They are even priced similarly to bikes at $1k and up each.

[VK3ZAZ]

Good thinking Paul
There are too many variables.
What works for one person at his location may not be equated to another.
If I could add the best advice

The best radio in the game doesn't work on a dummy load
Antenna is the first consideration.
radios and power supplies second.

I have worked from ten countries all over the place
A radio that worked well on VK9X VK9C and VK9L was crap in KL7
2 reasons
Location
Location

Even with dxers wanting ZONE 1 the rf hiss from the AU zone made the old TS690 pretty drab.
To get out also needed a linear amp to be heard.

Suggest you read reviews and realise that every opinion is tempered by the personal experience and /or frustration at working DX
Location every location has its issues and benefits.
The higher the better for VHF
Lower the better for HF and near the sea.

And as for a G5RV use one if you must
Used on in KL7 waste of space, but there will be those who stick with them even when losing 10db over a simple dipole.
Noise cancelling aerials are great
I use delta loops on 80 and 40m
Any rig should have internal tuner if possible
Times of the year and times of the sunspot cycle all lead to success or failure
and you cant judge your success by that of others even though they continually post selfies of how good the prop is.
In the end take all the advice you can get then decide and go do your own thing.

VK3ZAZ

340 countries
5B WAZ
5B WAS
5B DXCC including 6M

[VK2FABS]

Ummm... Second caller calling me "Paul". I think he was the previous holder of my callsign.

Wise advice on the variability on location and the famed YMMV qualifier.

I am tempted just to say that maybe I should just "copy" another's setup, one who is also in inner Sydney with space constraints. Then move on and expand and experiment from there. I can see how trial and errors from a theoretical base may become quite expensive and time consuming.

[VK2FABS]

Internet trolling and found this neat little transceiver - Elecraft KX3. F call license will obviously be restricted to the factory built units.
http://www.elecraft.com/KX3/kx3.htm

[VK3BQ]

Kx3 is tops. Great receiver. Almost tops the sherwood table. http://www.sherweng.com/table.html but will 10w limit you when you upgrade? Though makes portable and Sota ops very easy!! And if you have home antenna limitations. Sota might be an interesting radio activity for you.

[VK2FABS]

Kx3 is tops. Great receiver. Almost tops the sherwood table. http://www.sherweng.com/table.html but will 10w limit you when you upgrade? Though makes portable and Sota ops very easy!! And if you have home antenna limitations. Sota might be an interesting radio activity for you.

Good comments. I am not too worried about the 10W limit as given my present space issue with antenna, I'd be more than happy if I can be successful with QRP ops. If I do break through this barrier, I note that they have a 100W add-on module if I should decide to go that far. SOTA? I'll have to look into that. Back on the unit, I note that they are coming out with a 2M module this month. Will definitely be a worthwhile inclusion. Yes, I have noticed the price creep... But this is looking very attractive for any gadget lover.

[VK3BQ]

The 2m add on does not seem to be a good performer. From what I've read! But haven't used one so no real knowledge

But the radio is wonderful. For Sota. Have a look at http://www.sota.org.uk/Associations/vie ... prefix/VK2 and
http://www.vk3bq.com/2013/11/16/vk3-sot ... roduction/

[VK2FABS]

Thanks Andrew for the guidance. I am not too fussed by the lack of 2M if it really is a subpar product. Scanned across their site and had a good look at their operation and they looked pretty capable. Probably a bunch of ex-aeronautic/military people from the Bay Area. Given the 2M module is just coming out, I am wondering if it has room to grow with firmware updates. Holding my breath here and could schedule a pick up on a US trip.

[VK5KLV]

I've had a fair range of radios from modded CBs & home brew transverters, all valve HF ( English KW2000E which was a great radio in it's day) to a variety of solid state mobile & base radios from the major brands. They have all had their strong (& weak) points. I currently run several FT857Ds & since starting to "play in the parks" I have bought an FT817nd. I would probably suggest buying an FT857 as a starter as it is easy to wind the power back for foundation licence use & low power portable operation to conserve batteries.FT897 is a bit bulky & heavy. Once you start SOTA for example, then look at units like the 817 or KX3 etc. By then you will have a bit more experience & more idea of features & functions YOU want. 73s & best of luck with your endeavours in this great hobby. Les, VK5KLV