2014 Winter Field Day

[VK3QI]

Yes Ross,

CRO All good.

We could probably workout which grid square locator was in error by comparing your qsos and my qsos. It is probably someone who I worked once and you many times.

Cheers

Peter VK3QI

[VK3MY]

All good Peter, Colin explained it all, errors in the log, lol a lot of errors.

No big deal

Slim

[VK3BQ]

Yeah Ross. You still won home section by a shedload. Just a smaller shed!!

[VK4ADC]

Full Div2 results now available at http://www.wia.org.au/members/contests/vhfuhf/

Interesting points comparisons too.

[VK3PY]

Thinking about the Division 2 results of the winter FD, it seems to me that the intention of the division was not met. One would expect that a scoring system based on distance ought to encourage contacts at longer distances, but instead, what do we see? The average distance of contacts, calculated from the 48 entries, is 86.6km. Hardly worth getting out of bed for, to paraphrase a famous model*. Two entries are notable in having average contact distances in excess of 300km (they didn't win their sections). The rest are much, much lower. If we exclude these two "outliers", the average distance for the remaining 46 entries is an even more modest 75km.

I'm all for rewarding DX operation in these contests. But it seems to me that the Division 2 rules encourage sheer quantity of contacts at line-of-sight distances rather than DX. These rules favour stations which are perched on a hill top within easy striking distance of large centres of population. I pointed out early in the discussions on distance-based scoring that a simple points-per-km system would not reward DX contacts. The results have confirmed this.

Where to now?

Chas
VK3PY

*Linda Evangelista. "We don't wake up for less than $10,000 a day".

[VK3QI]

Here here Chas!

You are absolutely correct - all that effort to construct a rule change and virtually no difference in the outcome to previous contests!

From where I sit, I can't see it being any different in the Spring and Summer FDs.

As Geoffrey Blainey wrote - "The Tyranny of Distance" is alive and well in VK!

Cheers

Peter VK3QI

[VK5ZT]

Hi all....

These rules favour stations which are perched on a hill top within easy striking distance of large centres of population. I pointed out early in the discussions on distance-based scoring that a simple points-per-km system would not reward DX contacts. The results have confirmed this.

You got that right Chas....but wait until Spring or Summer when the 'big gun' VK3 stations are out. We will see massive scores that no one else can hope to get near. Your placing in the contest will almost be directly related to distance from the CBD!!

Oh well....I am mainly a rover and distance is just part of the equation but not in the sense you are talking about!

I am sure there is a seething undercurrent of discussion which will likely be inflamed by the next contest. Wait for the next installment.

Tim VK5ZT


"VK5ZT-Rover---I don't get out of bed for less than 5000 points a contest!"

[VK3PY]

Hi Tim,

You may be right about the Spring and Summer field days. And as Peter alludes to out above, the outcome may be that the Div. 1 winners may also win Div. 2. From my perspective, it's hardly a measure of a VHF/UHF/uWave contest station's capability to perch themselves on a hilltop and average less than 100km. You could do that from home.

The point I wanted to make is that if the rules are supposed to reward "DX" contacts (which for this purpose I will loosely define as those well beyond the horizon) then the present Div. 2 rules don't achieve that aim.

You got that right Chas....but wait until Spring or Summer when the 'big gun' VK3 stations are out. We will see massive scores that no one else can hope to get near. Your placing in the contest will almost be directly related to distance from the CBD!!

Nowhere in VK3 is far from the CBD. It's the interstate contacts that we really chase.

"VK5ZT-Rover---I don't get out of bed for less than 5000 points a contest!"

Stay in bed. Linda is cuter.

Chas
VK3PY

[VK3QI]

I'll pay $10,000 to wake up Linda!

Peter VK3QI

[VK3PY]

"Sleep wonderfully warm with Linda" as the advertisement for the electric blanket went. The lady in the advertisement was the "socialite" Susan Peacock (nee Rossiter, later Sangster then Renouf, and close friend of Billy "Boots" Snedden). A little Australian trivia.

But I digress.......

Chas
VK3PY

[VK3QI]

And Billy died on the job !
Cheers

[VK4TS]

LOGS WANTED

Is there any chance of people sending me copies of their logs from the Winter Field Day ? I need about ten logs to compare; either Div 1 or 2 doesn't make any difference as long as they have Grid Squares shown..

Preferably logs from VKCL - this is not for the WIA as I no longer have any positions with the organisation but purely for my own interest.

Email is VK4TS@wia.org.au

Thanks in advance

[VK3BQ]

What are you hoping to do with the logs.

I'm not sure my pathetic effort would provide any insights

I'm one of those worthless stations only working local metro contacts and not extending DX records with large antenna arrays or high power. Might stay in bed with Linda next time. Since my efforts don't achieve anything

[VK2ZRH]

Andrew VK3BQ wrote:
Since my efforts don't achieve anything

Actually, Andrew, your efforts do achieve something - it's called participation!

[VK3ALB]

What are you hoping to do with the logs.

I'm not sure my pathetic effort would provide any insights

I'm one of those worthless stations only working local metro contacts and not extending DX records with large antenna arrays or high power. Might stay in bed with Linda next time. Since my efforts don't achieve anything

Surely you had fun on the day?

I reckon what Roger said.

[VK3PY]

Andrew, I think you entirely missed the point of my posting, which is that the distance-based scoring system (Division 2) was supposed to reward long-distance contacts, and I presume, encourage stations to achieve long distances. Judged by the logs submitted, these aims were self-evidently not met.

Chas
VK3PY

[VK4TS]

Thanks for that Chas -

It was what I have said all along - the formula is not right - But I had to put up with cries of "stone the unbeliever" from several on this bulletin board. Most interestingly, who did not bother to enter a log in the first running of the alternative they pushed so hard to introduce.

To attract extra activity, you need to find reason and to find reason you need to analyse what you are trying to achieve - Sadly what this divisive reaction has achieved is the resignation of a talented individual.

I look at these results with dismay as they frankly failed to produce - But for the love of radio sport we need to regroup and get it right.

We want more activity - but do we want it on Microwave ? Is Microwave better suited to activity days and NOT contests ? Given our populations and distances involved ?

What do we need ? Personally ?

I "think" we need a 6 2 70 23 Contest where all bands are worth the same points.
Where there are multipliers based on grid squares and distances are added to QSO points..albiet with very large QSO points
Where there is reason to become the DX and sit-up on a hill in the middle of no where and have fun..

[VK4CZ]

Unfortunately for this event we could only work the avail & active stations.

For those of us in SE VK4 it would equate to only one station operating between BNE and SYD and outside of the 'local' grid square cluster - @ a distance of ~415km. With no one to our north beyond ~200km (against a >1500km coastline)

Hopefully the decisions on whether this was a success won't be limited to the observations made of a single Winter FD event - an event that traditionally has low levels of participation.

I'm hopeful that over time this approach will see more stations return to the fold from outside of the CBD catchments as they see the benefit and demand for their involvement.

It will also provide incentive for those of us willing to 'invest' the time, effort and cost to push further afield... something that has been lacking from the previous regime.

Both of which will make operating in these events a whole lot more fulfilling (and challenging).


Scott
VK4CZ

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[VK3YE]

I'm not sure if average distance of contacts is the best way to determine whether the contest encourages short or long distance contacts or not.

One can very simply triple one's average distance from <100km to >300km by not working local stations.

But who gains from this? And would it raise or lower total activity and participation?

Another measure may be whether rules maximise both activity and absolute numbers of longer distance contacts across all bands.

Personally I didn't find that either scoring system discouraged longer distance contacts. Even if they needed significant repetition and CW to complete.

[VK4GHZ]

Warning:
• more than 30 characters
• may require some thought

Anyone who expected significant change on the very first running is being unrealistic.

Look back through your own FD logs, and recollect who you worked, where THEY were, and were YOU were.
If it's anything like here in the S/E QLD, then there is a very high probability that:

the same people
go to the same spots
time after time


How can you expect distances to magically increase, if everybody operates from the same old haunts.


Personally I'm bored working the same old crowd on Howell's Knob, Border Ranges and Mt Gravatt.
(The three safe bets, for those unfamiliar with S/E QLD)
It's even more boring when you have 2 or more independent stations all operating from the same location.

Fun at first, but it also gets boring working mW microwave stations from one side of town to the other.


The beauty of distance based scoring is, you can experiment with new locations, maybe only 30-50km away (or more!), and it can have some impact on your score.
Under a grid based system, you could still be in the same square, so why bother.

Tinkering with formulas so soon tends to demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding: Changing scoring methodology is only a part of it.

The other, more significant, half to the equation:
If operators can start breaking their tired old routines, and try new locations, then things inherently become much more interesting, challenging, and fun.
Remember the feeling when you did something for the first time?

Getting operators to realise they now have some new scope to explore, will take time.

It will also provide incentive for those of us willing to 'invest' the time, effort and cost to push further afield... something that has been lacking from the previous regime.

Absolutely agree.

You can keep adding new bands as a short term distraction, if/when funds allow, but the underlying problem remains: a limited number of "DX" locations are activated, reducing the challenge, interest, and ultimately participation.