Foundation Licence (FL ) Knowledge.

[VK4QB]

Hi Everybody,
It would appear on looking at the questions submitted to these columns that the Foundation Licence guys are lacking a lot of basic knowledge. Why? Are they being introduced to the ARRL handbook ? Admittedly these have changed over the years and have delved into digital systems but the basics are still there ! The questions they ask on antennas are quite obviously pointed to end fed wire antennas seemingly without a tuner? What has happened to the 1/2 wave centre fed dipole? This is a basic antenna that a good performer, with no frills. If you don't have enough length for a 1/2 wave dipole, bend it round corners ! If you slope it , it'll still works! It's best if you can feed it with a balanced antenna tuner, if you can't get it to load or accept power, but hey, its not that hard to work the lengths out either. 468 divided by the frequency will give you the 1/2 wavelength in feet (that old measurement ). Start with the 1/2 wave antenna then go to the OFC (off centre fed) antennas , which will all require antenna tuners to help them match the antenna load to the transmitter. If you start with a hard antenna then you are getting beyond your comfort zone of knowledge so read up.
73
Brian VK4QB

[VK4YEH]

Ok, I'll stick my neck out here and probably get my head amputated in the process.

Yes you are correct, many foundation licence holders do not have a lot of what was once basic knowledge. I speak from experience here as I have 4 students who have an F licence and don't know much. Hey, I do not have what was once considered basic knowledge as I got my call after the days of having to draw various sections of valve gear in the exam. That does not however stop me being an active and hopefully useful member of the ham radio community.

I must say that they most new f-calls are used to playing with "black box" equipment VCR, DVD, iPod, mobile phone etc etc. They are going to buy a black box radio and become very proficient at using it, with no idea how or why it works, so the F-licence caters for them very well.

BUT, and it is a big but, if they want to progress with their interest, they will have to learn a lot more about radio, antennae, propogation etc. etc.

Personally I believe that we should be nurturing the F-calls, helping each and every one of them as much as possible, and encouraging them to go further. Oldies like me are not the future of amateur radio, my four 13 year old students and others like them are.

Just fell off my soapbox and broke my leg!

Tim Roberts
VK4YEH

[VK3LDR]

G'day!

An F call myself I must say that yes, the taught and expected knowledge is a very basic level without much depth. I think this is why people ruled that us Foundation operations are not to use more than 3/10w. I have done a certificate in basic electronics, just over 10 years ago though and was first a CB SSB operator since 1991 so I already knew some of the topics and was always into electronics and radio comms. I think the F call should go a little bit more in depth, but I think the power limits and equipment constraints could be changed a little perhaps as well. When the governing bodies basically say, no power & no digital modes & no non-commercial equipment I think the F call speaks for itself - it's the lowest and most basic level of knowledge to know how to connect a radio and operate it. I know I probably sound spiteful, but the impression I get is that Foundation operators aren't supposed to know anything and are not supposed to tinker with anything, which is not such a fostering or encouraging approach.

Anyhow, end rant, I agree that there should be a little more depth in the Foundation call. I'm now looking at upgrading to standard level call as I'm keen on using some more power and also digital modes such as Packet, D-star and others (I guess this interest comes from working in the IT field, I've also been into datacomms). With my CBE in the past it should not take me long to pick the knowledge back up again.

Anyhow, I very much look forward to meeting people on air and having a chat and experimenting a little along the way.

Oh, and incidentally, I just today ordered a copy of the ARRL handbook and will also be ordering the antenna book as well and I'll be getting my books from TAFE out from the days of CBE!

73s,
Dave

[VK2OMD]

G'day!
...
I know I probably sound spiteful, but the impression I get is that Foundation operators aren't supposed to know anything and are not supposed to tinker with anything, which is not such a fostering or encouraging approach.
...

You know Dave, if you put a big cake on the table in front of a child, and cut them a big slice, it is not surprising when their eyes are fixed on the bit they didn't get, even if the piece they did get is bigger than they can cope with.

We saw a similar effect when the then Novice privileges were recast, Novices got more privilege and for nothing, but many were focussed on the things they didn't have.

And yes, it happens with many FLs.

As you hinted, the FL competency (ie the set of skills, experience and attitudes) was set very very low to attract people who might only vaguely have an interest in what was ham radio to create the very smallest hurdle in this day of instant gratification, and to mitigate the risk that flowed from that, the privilege set is less than for the other grades. The hope was that, of the masses attracted in this way, that there would be a trickle of people into the higher licence grades to sustain ham radio.

Be positive, focus on what you have. If you are genuinely interested in ham radio, you will work at growing your knowledge and experience and the FL provides an environment for reinforcement of what you read and an opportunity for community to discuss what you are learning with other like minded people.

You enjoy as much freedom in opportunity to experiment with things upstream of the transceiver (ATU, feed lines, antennas) as any licence grade... and if truth be known, that is where much, if not most experimentation takes place today.

At the end of the day, the Advanced Licence is really a licence to learn, and the FL is a step on that path.

Working on developing yourself, and it does take work, is an investment in yourself... some people don't think themselves worth it, so it is up to you.

Owen

[VK3LDR]

I like the cake analogy, sounds like my younger brother. I was just disappointed at the actual restrictions imposed but I can sort of understand what the Foundation class level is all about so I respect the limitations imposed. I guess I actually feel held back by the Foundation level restrictions and want more, so I'm going to work towards it.

Well I'm looking at ordering the CD-ROMS for the standard level exam. The Foundation level is a nice enough foot in the door, no complaints there, but I guess if I was really serious to start with I would have gone straight for the standard. I just wanted to get on air and start talking though! I didn't want to spend weeks studying etc. So now that I've had my taste and have my access, I can take my time to upgrade.

I was actually looking forward to something more indepth when I did the foundation course - I was surprised when I sat the course.

I agree with your last comments too regarding the experimentation with antennas etc. I assembled an ebay purchased dipole kit recently, and it works ok. I'm now going to add some 10m band elements to it and am also going to investigate using traps so I can perhaps add the 80m band to it. Right now it's a 40/15m but I'm going to turn it into a tri-bander

73's
Dave

[VK7CAV]

G'day Dave,
I have an advanced license but I still feel knowledge challenged.
The internet has been a good help to me in finding information.
There might be a few people that have studied hard and learnt morse code,etc., 20 years ago that think that the Foundation License is too easy to get.
They are probably right.
When a hobby looks like dying due to the internet, I suppose you have to change the rules to keep it alive.
I find that if you have a hobby the internet is more interesting and you can search for stuff related to your hobby.
Anyway not much else, hope to see you on the airwaves.

Andrew VK7CAV

[VK3LDR]

When a hobby looks like dying due to the internet, I suppose you have to change the rules to keep it alive.Andrew VK7CAV

This is the problem that faces the future of the amateur radio hobby IMHO. The hobby may eventually die out and the specturm space potentially re-claimed etc. That's my worry... I'm about to turn 30 soon, so while I'm still around I'll try and make sure the hobby stays alive & well... but now with the Internet around, anybody, anywhere, anytime can do anything they want almost... Talk to whoever they want, say whatever they want etc. without real restrictions as yet... The Internet has progressed at a fast pace, but it's a little immature when it comes to protection and regulation of people on there...

I think the Internet and mobile phones have killed CB radio pretty much.

Only a keen hobbyist would get on amateur radio for the interest of talking to fellow minded amateurs and experimenting of course with relevant topics etc.

That's why I signed up, bouncing waves off the ionosphere is my idea of challening engaging entertainment (what a nerd I am)... opening IRC on the Internet is as easy as a couple of clicks, or skype, msn and any other method of IM and chat groups.. all from the comfort of your PC anywhere at anytime... no fuss, dead easy.. the easy option. I think only die hard fans will rise to the challenge of learning something, building something and sitting around putting our hundreds of CQ calls in dire hope that someone will answer....

I support the Internet connected radio systems greatly, as long as it's radio to radio. With all due respect, I don't support Echolink use for computer to radio via the Intenret or even computer to computer, what's the point? Computer to computer over the air is what it's all about - i guess you could debate this particular feature of the hobby.

Having said all that, I'm waiting for the next advanced course to run through a couple of local clubs, one night a week for 20 weeks though is a long time. I think 2 nights per week in half the time would have been more desirable, but if I feel I'm getting it then I'll read ahead and maybe have a go at the exam when I feel confident before the end of the course.

Cheers,
Dave

[VK7CAV]

Dave,

I agree with everything you and DAG said. My point was that most of the public think about communication as talking to someone rather than bouncing signals off the ionosphere. When I speak to non-radio people they come back with "why do you want to put up antennas , etc. when you can just get on a chat line", etc.
You have to have an interest in radio to get into it.
Anyone who goes for a Foundation License has that interest.
I am not into bagging people just because exams are easier to pass than they were 20 years ago.
The point is how much those people who passed those hard exams really remember about all the subjects they studied !
The exam gets you through the door then you can specialise in what you are interested in and you will probably forget most of the other theory you didn't quite undestand.
However that stuff always seems to come back and haunt you on occasions which may make you try and study up on it again and really understand it.
I have electronic qualifications outside of amateur radio but have forgotton a lot because if you don't practice it regularly like a practical skill you lose it.
It is however a lot easier to refresh your knowledge than start from scratch.
I am happy to say that I am not an expert but I am trying to improve my knowledge using all means such as books and forums such as this.
The advanced license isn't that hard to get.

Andrew

[VK3LDR]

VK7CAV... I swear I heard that callsign lastnight on 40m... (Thursday night). I have a certificate in basic electronics, obtained in 1996 at Swinburne TAFE. Do I remember what I studied 12 years ago, not really, so on that note, I agree with you 100%. I work in IT, and it's damn hard to keep up to date. I think what some people need to remember too is just because your a FL holder, you might not necessarily be new to electronics on radio or the new to the hobby per se. I've been into amateur radio since I was a kid, as far back as 1990. I even started practicing morse code back then! I do however have a lot to learn, I knew nothing about Balun's when I assembled my first dipole... !!

It seems that FL's are sometimes regarded as complete dummies, and I don't mean about radio, I mean because they have an FL it means they aren't smart people and might not know much about anything as well.

Anyhow, I haven't been picked on directly on the air by anyone so I can't complain so far really. All though you do notice people kind of speaking "down" towards you, maybe even without meaning it.

I've had my in, I've had my tasters, now I'm going for advanced.... and when I do get it, I'm sure I'll still really be a newbie with the freshly gained knowledge.

I think the number of genuinely interested people in the hobby of radio comms is limited these days.... Maybe more work needs to be done promoting the hobby in relevant fields of study at unis, tafes etc. The average person doesn't have a clue as to what "ham" radio or "amateur radio" is.. The next person that says "Is that CB Radio?" I'll smack! lol.

[VK4LA]

G"day all.....I Think the f-call licence introduction was a good idea ,but we are simply just lowering the Standards for people who cant understand morse code ,and basic Novice theory .to get on air..
Im sorry but im brought up with the old ways of the hobby > wanted HF do cw and novice theory and regs,to get on there.....
And as far as the f-call power output limit is concerned they should be allowed NO MORE THAN 10WATTS MAX OUTPUT .....P.E.P

Thanks to all for reading this

PS MY NECKS STUCK OUT TO ...

VK4LA BOB

[VK4ABW]

How time flies..... i remember paying 2 dollars to sit my ticket back when...... yeah enough of that

I haven't kept up with the regulation changes as of late, but if the hobby is to survive in this changing world, then we need to change also. The introductory license had to come about due to the technical advances which just keeps accelerating. The 'younger generation' doesn't believe you when TV only came in black and white, an AM/shortwave radio was a luxury item and a mobile phone required a briefcase to move it! But, you have to start somewhere and just where that foundation license 'lower limit' it set, was determined by the powers to be.

Keeping an 'open mind' is the only way we will progress and if it involves bringing new people into the hobby with very little knowledge, then we should be welcoming them with open arms. The rules and regulations imposed seem okay to me and i'm sure that if they want to progress and enjoy the benefits available, then the next hurdle will be jumped in due course. However, there will always be a certain percentage that flaunt the rules, which is very evident after hearing a few recent conversations on 80m, but there is a system in place to regulate this.

The knowledge required to operate an 'amateur' station effectively comes with experience and time, and the same can be said for learning electronics.

This blurb has not been directed at anyone or any previous comment and is only my opinion on the subject.

Keep asking questions and keep learning is a good moto.

cheers
Gary
VK4ABW

[VK2MS]

I don't know how the foundation licence got cracking, no one asked my opinion, anyone ask yours?...not if you were a WIA member but in general, was there a survey letter from ACA?

Among these letters were some important points. Considerable generosity, midrange "not too sures" and some demand that the licencees have something to offer or at least to meet a traditional grade.

I am an accredited assessor who has never believed the foundation licence has anything like what we are fed, to offer; however as a professional person I was a spotless examiner and one who also raised Ham tradition to try to encourage the up and comers.The hierarchy involved with the scheme didn't like that. I am not person who calls Amateur radio a hobby, I say every time it isn't a hobby, it is a brotherhood. I believe real Hams have a right to define behaviour to deviants on air. The WIA says "no way". I am pretty well travelled and a professional project manager, my work takes me overseas and I deal with soundly enthusing often deprived people.I also teach electrotechnology.

I did my Electronics Certificate in 1971 and I do remember a lot of it and a lot about tubes(valves) transistors, and testing and selecting miltary equipment with which I was involved as a young chap then in those in Vietnam years and later.I can't remember anything ever becoming more interesting or more valuable because someone made it easier to attain.I believe that the "Ham" licence requirements were never the problem other than very much in the USA from failures who demanded ham licences and those "gimmmesome"'s" who think they have a right to everything without paying the price. , . I studied Engineering and contract law and foreign language concurrently, I can't say the challenge to be the best or too ever turned me away. If I value something I put in the effort to earn it....and that effort might take huge amounts of time and providing "over and above" what a course or contract demands.

When these variously ,aged from 6 or 7 upwards, people achieve their foundation licence they achieve a right formulated for them and so have a right to get on the air. No one can deny that, the concern is what impact they will have but in the meantime good example will be a help and redirection when they go off the rails..politely and firmly.

Some allusion was made to education and ongoing education, personally I have my doubts many will go on with the Ham credo in mind. Education today is often "competency based" something about which a lot is talked and little done about it. Comments were made to me by self interested parties such as "in your day you weren't examined for competency". Actually, though some had a silver spoon in their mouths most of us I recall hung around ham shacks and Atchison Street or other WIA centres and we did a pretty fair apprenticeship. I was an SWL for a long time and very well knew how to operate a wireless, install and antenna and build AC supplies and was proficient be it a mantle set or an AR88-D, AR7, AR8, Collins, BC 348, APS 13 SCR522 or any one of more than two dozen sets. Passing the exam was my dream, the difficulty drew me to it as did CW. People who had achieved a full call were special people and I admired them terribly.

It is difficult for me to see any relatioship between the F call and any level of Ham radio however I don't demean them nor abuse them for it. What I have tried to do is to present challenges and suggestions and to indicate that there are plenty of operators around with higher qualifications who are still not Hams. The plastic modes of today generally only offer assemply challenges, I don't think they have anything to offer Hams and so "keeping up with technology" no longer creeates the visions that Hams had of intimacy with the equipment and worthwhile experimentation. I have stated many time s they should have to build a low power trasnsceiver for their licence "competence" but the WIA recoils from that suggestion with various low level arguments. Ok so Hams may need to act without the patronage of the WIA, which ought to be, in my view, in any event a servant and not a master. It should act for us and not ask us to act for it.

So on my part I accept we have this new licence level reasonably established. It has to be at the very least, tolerated and where possible enthused. We must in my view remain a brotherhood of Ham traditions and treat them well, kindly and offer them challenges. They are not "Hams" they are apprentices. The licence process in my opinion is seriously flawed and asks nothing of them relevant to "Ham Radio" other than some lightweight knowledge however those who want the benefits do no want to see any impediments raised.

Everyone of these new licencees uses bandwidth and so licencees who are used to having chats over the internet will present some problems as the conditions improve and older licencees are drawn back on the air.Tolerance will I hope become widespread, think of these people as your own but don't tolerate poor procedures. Some people feel inspired they say by this "new blood" well, that's good.

Having said that, the licence is here. I am not at all sure that the finances were not the incentive as opposed to any altruism on Ham Radio and certainly my experience said the money was the number one objective. Notwithstanding that ,what we have now on the bands is what we have. We have to expand our hearts to accomodate what others have presented to us.

I agree with the chap entirely who wrote their power should not be raised, substantial dx can be achieved with "low" power and if this drives the F calls to experiment with conditions, aerials, even get training in cw, all the better for us all. If it frustrates them, well that's life and when they demand high power then they have to pass the relevant and quite simple, unfortunately, exams.

That other operators use ether busters of 400 W upwards should not be presented as an achievement in communications nor a desirable end in itself but rather that the useful power achieved in antenna gain be understood and sought at low power. So what? if you get 5/9+30 using a log periodic at 100 feet high or more?...what does that prove?...certainly nothing like 5/5 into UK on 5 watts. In our own communications I think we now have to be aware we have a responsibility to Ham tradition....something pretty sparsely accepted.....to guide these soft achievers into being the best they can be and hopefully inspire them with ham history and traditions. Teach them plain English on Vox, not a series of cw codes incorrectly used. encourage the to look at cw but not as keyboard generated or via memories...to actually become competent with the focus it takes to achieve at CW..it will do them the world of good to mature at something with a goal in mind.The greatest problem in schools today for English is that no comprehension studies are undertaken ...CW will go a long way to filling that gap.

We should, in my model, inspire them to read, build, experiment. Anyone can plug in a transceiver and mic and start calling but that's irrlevant to achieving "Hamdom", Hamdom is about excellence and dealing with gear with which you can merge your skills. Personally I think the F call should be flicked and the Novice become the basic call achievement. They should be required to construct challenging gear. Is that unfair?...no, in days of old, if you passed the exams you knew how to operate transmitting equipment by the very fact of having the knowledge of passing he exams and we didn't use two knob auto scanners in learning we used receivers with several controls. We should not in my view tolerate just another method of communications being handed on a plate to very much only entry level licencees but should make it more difficult than it was in the 90's....go back to go forwards.

Anyway much can be said much can be learned but perhaps what I have raised might generate further comments.

Cheers

[VK4GHZ]

VK2MS, I don't what your real agenda is, but F-Call bashing on this forum from you, or anybody else, will not be tolerated.
You are entitled to your own opinion,and can attempt to justify it anyway you like, but the holier-than-thou attitude is not in the spirit of amateur radio at all.

The Foundation Call is here to stay, get used to the idea, and move on.

[VK2MS]

Adam, you seem to have quite a problem in the area of F calls and I would be obliged for you to point out to me precisely where I am "F" bashing...in context. When you do that I'll reply. Cheers

[VK4GHZ]

Adam, you seem to have quite a problem in the area of F calls and I would be obliged for you to point out to me precisely where I am "F" bashing...in context. When you do that I'll reply. Cheers

I am not the one with the problem with F-Calls.
Do not try and turn this around on other people.

Your ramblings above, and in the other topic, demonstrate YOU have issues, issues that need resolving.
This forum is not the place for that however.

[VK4GHZ]

No Matt, I won't be feeding the trolls... simply don't have the spare time.

[VK4YEH]

At the risk of being labeled a troll or being accused of feeding a troll, I'll buy into this as I think there has been an over-reaction to the post by Tony VK2MS. I did not read the post as either a troll or an anti F-call rant. I have to say that the relevance to the topic of some parts was a bit hazy for me, but then we are all guilty of that to a greater or lesser degree at times.

Despite that he should be able to express his concerns, past and present, and in my opinion we should accept and respect his concerns whether or not we agree with them. After all, isn't one of the cornerstones of a forum the ability to do just that? Was Tony personally abusive to any other forum member?

Other hams I have spoken to have expressed exactly the same concerns to me as Tony in private.

Some examples from his post that indicate to me that it was not an F-call bash:

............in the meantime good example will be a help and redirection when they go off the rails..politely and firmly.

........... I don't demean them nor abuse them for it.

........ I have stated many times they should have to build a low power transceiver for their licence "competence"
(how is this negative? - it is an opinion shared by others I'm sure)

...... It (the F license) has to be at the very least, tolerated and where possible enthused.

.........We must in my view remain a brotherhood of Ham traditions and treat them well, kindly and offer them challenges.

....They are not "Hams" they are apprentices. (again an opinion but not a negative)

....... Tolerance will I hope become widespread, think of these people as your own but don't tolerate poor procedures.

........Some people feel inspired they say by this "new blood" well, that's good.

......... We have to expand our hearts to accommodate what others have presented to us.

........ We should, in my model, inspire them to read, build, experiment.

Cheers

My views on the matter are clear by the way. I support the F-call and will continue to encourage my students to take it on as a first step into ham radio.

Tim R
VK4YEH

[VK4QB]

Hi Everybody,
While the comments are on a positive note, I can think of one improvement to the system of licence, in that to step up after the Foundation licence, the applicant must build a small transmitter. I'm not saying for what frequency or power but it must be a goer. Anybody with a little knowledge of radio basics should be able to get a simple transmitter going. This will give the F holders some incentive to progress beyond the F call At the moment the F license is a ticket to operating. I think that building a transmitter would give s person a chance to progress technically, and start them on the way to experimentation.
Brian
4QB

[VK4GHZ]

At the moment the F license is a ticket to operating. I think that building a transmitter would give s person a chance to progress technically, and start them on the way to experimentation.

Brian, not even the AOCP equivalent, whatever it's called this week, has this requirement.

I could say that everybody who has sat for a ham license after circa 1976, isn't a real ham at all.
Prior to then (I think it was 76, but I could be wrong), it was an essay type examination with some practical involved.
It was appropriate for the day.

Since then multi-choice type exams were introduced.
The AOCP, and ALOCP were all dumbed down in the 70's, along with the introduction of the NOACP.

How is the, and I hate the term, "dumbing down" associated with the entry-level Foundation qualification any different?
It isn't.

If somebody obtained a certificate of proficiency prior to the multi-choice exam, then does that make them a "better ham"?
I think not.

In case anyone hasn't noticed lately, society in general is dumbing down.

There are people around that believe in the "I did it, so they should have to do it as well".
These people are either scared of change, or have a chip on their shoulder over something.

$0.03

[VK7JG]

Good one Adam .
We had the same problem with the introduction of the 'Z" call . We were also classified as not real amateurs . At least we had to build our own gear to get operational on VHF .
That said times have changed and we move on .

73

Joe
VK7JG ex VK7ZGJ