Yaesu FT-101E for Foundation Call

[VK5HP]

I have a Yaesu FT-101E that I would like to limit the power to 10Watts PEP for a foundation Licence.

Is there any easy way to do this?

I have Tried limiting Mic Gain and carrier controls but the lowest it seems to go down to is
50 to 60 Watts

Cheers Paul

[VK2KYP]

Hi Paul, If you reduce the screen volts this will adjust the power output.

73 Gary VK2KYP

[VK5KK]

Hi All

Lower screen volts will do it, seem also to remember a "EE" model was sold for Novice use (and probably JA domestic use) that had half plate volts (HV rectifier was reconfigured) to meet the 1970's 30W PEP output regs.

If you don't want play around with high voltage, you can apply negative volts to the external ALC input (just checked, pin 7 on the accessory socket on the back panel) to reduce power output. Normally this was connected to the ALC out on the FL2100/Z amplifier, used this trick to drive a pair of 813's in an old broadcast deck modified to 160 metres last century Installed a switch on the 101's back panel to switch the voltage in and out so the FT101E could be restored back to full power for barefoot operation. This worked better than trying to reduce power using the internal ALC adjustment.

O Volts on ALC terminal = full power, somewhere over -5V = zero output. A simple circuit using a potentiometer say 5K with a series resistor to limit the pot's range to under 10V was connected to the - Ve bias supply at the junction of one of the dividers (can't remember where but it wasn"t the -150V point!). Alternatively you could do this externally (to pin 7) with a pot and a small DC plug pack (regulated) with the +ve connected to ground (pin9). This may not quite satisfy ACMA requirements though

Cheers

David VK5KK

[VK2OMD]

I have a Yaesu FT-101E that I would like to limit the power to 10Watts PEP for a foundation Licence.

Is there any easy way to do this?

I have Tried limiting Mic Gain and carrier controls but the lowest it seems to go down to is
50 to 60 Watts

Cheers Paul

If you look at most of the modern transciever designs, they have a threshold detector that creates ALC control voltage when a given PEP power level is exeeded, the threshold being set by the power adjustment on the radio. (The power adjustment should also reduce the IF gain commensurately for best ALC dynamics, ie for least TID.)

There is no equivalent circuitry in the FT-101E or the like.

Reducing mic gain does not reduce the maximum PEP delivered to a limiting value the like above arrangements, it just reduces the rate of occurrence of higher PEP values.

The whole FL compliance with the PEP power limit is a problem for transceivers of that type, the one thing we can be sure of is that when adjusted for 10 'Foundation watts', they aren't running more than the equipment's maximum (towards 200W for some of these).

I was chatting to a FL using this technology who in the best of faith was running his 10W as instructed. He said he had been told to do the "haaaarlo" thing and adjust mic gain for 10W on the inline Power/SWR meter of the so-called averaging kind (10 "Foundation watts"). So, I tried the same thing whilst talking to him, and with processer OFF on my 100W PEP transceiver, I was unable to get the power meter as high as 10 "Foundation watts".

So, in answer to your question, there isn't an easy way... and probably isn't any way without breaching the "commercial manufacture" provisions, depending on how the ACMA chooses to iterpret them at the time.

I would expect that an operator monitoring an accurate PEP indicating wattmeter inline might have a good case to put... but as you note, you have to get sufficiently low mic gain to get in that area.

You might ask what have the large number of people using these things done.

There are also lots of FLs using equipment of the first type I described, and they can adjust them with confidence that they are complying with the limits.

Owen

[VK5HP]

Thanks Guys for the Reply's,

I am planning on let my friend use the radio when he gets his foundation Licence ( doesn't have a lot of spare cash to buy a modern radio).

I would prefer not to modify the radio to much as it's in very good original condition and is working fine. The front panel almost looks brand new
Might have a play with the neg volts on the ALC terminal suggested first.

Cheers Paul VK5HP

[VK2MUS]

I am planning on let my friend use the radio when he gets his foundation Licence ( doesn't have a lot of spare cash to buy a modern radio).

interesting legal point! - if you modify it to cut down the output then is it still 'as manufactured' if not then a foundation op cannot use it. (shows you some laws can be totally stupid)
john

[VK4TS]

Absolute Bollocks - read the regulations

[VK4TI]

interesting legal point! - if you modify it to cut down the output then is it still 'as manufactured' if not then a foundation op cannot use it. (shows you some laws can be totally stupid)
john

How did you come to that incorrect conclusion ?. I have modded several radios for low power use , an acceptable legal method assuming it's not switchable

[VK4TS]

switchable is not the point - on that same basis NO amateur could own a device capable of more than their legal maximum, none of us could own cars capable of more than 100kph...

there is nothing in the regs at all to do with device capability - taking it to the extreme an F call could own an ACOM 2000 as long as they could run it at ten watts....a similarly noteworthy feat..

[VK2EFM]

An external directional coupler (two transformer architecture) and diode detector, with the appropriate level setting fed back into the ALC port would do it. Have a look at the schematic for s solid state radio and how they generate transmit ALC....
Allan

[VK2MUS]

How did you come to that incorrect conclusion ?. I have modded several radios for low power use , an acceptable legal method assuming it's not switchable

going back to the advice I received from the powers to be when I was a Foundation operator - any change to the commercially manufactured radio that was not within the original specification made the item a non commercially manufactured radio ie a modified item - the item I was changing at that stage was the microphone from a hand held to a desk mic - the manufacturers did not manufacture a desk mic for that particular radio. I have a Ft101E sitting on the shelf and that is one reason why I did not use it while a Foundation operator. It all depends on Definitions what is a commercially manufactured radio and when does it stop being a commercially manufactured radio.

At that time the discussion was not what the powers to be would do but what the concise reading of the act and regulations said.
john

[VK5HP]

Hmmm

2 points of view, Surely common sense would apply to a radio that has been changed to allow an operator
to use the equipment legally?

If you are doing the right thing ( or trying to) does it matter how it's been achieved

[VK4TS]

Exactly............................

[VK4GHZ]

Where exactly does it say that a Foundation Call licensee cannot use a modified commercially manufactured transceiver?

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2013C ... c347310675

Part 6 Conditions for amateur licence (amateur foundation station)

26 Conditions

Every amateur licence (amateur foundation station) is subject to the additional conditions in this Part relating to the operation of any amateur foundation station by the licensee under the licence.

27 Permitted frequency bands

The licensee must operate an amateur foundation station to transmit only on a frequency in a frequency band mentioned in an item in Schedule 3A.

27A Restrictions on operation of an amateur foundation station

(1) The licensee of an amateur licence (amateur foundation station) must not authorise another person to operate the licensee’s amateur station if the other person is not a qualified operator or qualified person.

(2) The licensee of an amateur licence (amateur foundation station) must not operate an amateur station using automatic mode or computer controlled mode.

(3) The licensee of an amateur licence (amateur foundation station) must not operate an amateur station that is directly connected to a public telecommunications network.

Note An amateur foundation station may be indirectly connected to a public telecommunications network through a gateway operated by another licensee.

28 Transmitting equipment restrictions

The licensee must not operate an amateur foundation station using a transmitter that has not been manufactured commercially.

29 Emissions from an amateur foundation station

The licensee must not operate an amateur foundation station in a frequency band mentioned in an item in Schedule 3A unless:

(a) it is operated using an emission mode mentioned in the item; and

(b) if the emission mode is 200HA1A, the information to be transmitted is sent by the use of a manually operated morse key; and

(c) the transmission remains entirely within a frequency band mentioned in the item.

30 Transmitter output power

The licensee must not operate an amateur foundation station using a transmitter output power of more than 10 watts pX.

The way I interpret Part 6 is:
Items 28 and 30 are directly relevant.
Commercially made transceiver, not capable of exceeding 10W pX.

Not being able to modify commercial gear to meet the requirements would be, frankly, stupid.
I'm sure all those involved in developing the Foundation Call weren't that stupid.

The fact that a lot of regulatory documents are vague, often deliberately so, only adds to wasted time, effort, and productivity.

If somebody can point to a current ACMA document that specifically prohibits Foundation licensees using commercially manufactured transceivers, modified for the sole purpose of meeting the license conditions, please do so.
Then we can put this myth to bed once and for all.

?

[VK4TI]

[/quote]

going back to the advice I received from the powers to be when I was a Foundation operator - any change to the commercially manufactured radio that was not within the original specification made the item a non commercially manufactured radio ie a modified item - the item I was changing at that stage was the microphone from a hand held to a desk mic - the manufacturers did not manufacture a desk mic for that particular radio. I have a Ft101E sitting on the shelf and that is one reason why I did not use it while a Foundation operator. It all depends on Definitions what is a commercially manufactured radio and when does it stop being a commercially manufactured radio.

At that time the discussion was not what the powers to be would do but what the concise reading of the act and regulations said.
john[/quote] It sound like you were erroneously informed , years back a commercial rig was modified by a full call or other suitably qualified person for the 30 watt novice class and imho the same rule should be a decent guide making it all legit
Certainly this stuff needs clarification as making most rigs legit for 10 watt is simple

[VK4TS]

"Commercially made transceiver, not capable of exceeding 10W pX."

It doesn't say that ... it doesn't say the rigs must not exceed ten watts it says you must not exceed ten watts....Again we are over regulating the regulations..

[VK4TI]

"Commercially made transceiver, not capable of exceeding 10W pX."

It doesn't say that ... it doesn't say the rigs must not exceed ten watts it says you must not exceed ten watts....Again we are over regulating the regulations..

You would agree through setting the power level down until the upgrade stops any chance of finger pointing and can't hurt , and there is a lot of finger pointing .

[VK4TS]

WHY do we have to be a NANNY state ? - It's bad enough the bureaucrats can't sort it out without us reading more into it than is there..

Think of the court case ...

ACMA - Mr judge - We have before you Mr VK0FXXX who had in his possession a radio capable of transmitting more than ten watts......(shock and horror in the courtroom)

Solicitor for the Defence - Your honour...my client also has a Holden capable of more than 100kph and he is not here for that...(smug look on solicitor)

Judge....have him hanged at dawn ! (court agrees - the jury heard him on the 40m net overnight)

[VK3XRI]

Ok an f call can have any radio .. including modified commercial radio providing its operated with in the f call provision and the modifications are carried out by a standard or full call operator

Sent from my GT-I9305T using Tapatalk

[VK4TS]

and the modifications are carried out by a standard or full call operator

It doesnt say that in the act
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2010C00897

These references to not being able to modify and must be Kenwoods, Yaesu, Icoms are the dreams of bedwetting trainspotters and their own interpretation (and addition) to the existing document.

Adam has quoted it verbatim.

It is simple-

Part 6 Conditions for amateur licence (amateur foundation station)

28 Transmitting equipment restrictions

The licensee must not operate an amateur foundation station using a transmitter that has not been manufactured commercially. eg CODAN, BARRETT, MIDLAND, MODIFIED CBs

30 Transmitter output power

The licensee must not operate an amateur foundation station using a transmitter output power of more than 10 watts pX. It is very simple - It does not say it can't be a transmitter capable of more than ten watts - it just cant be operated using more than ten watts..

They are trying to encourage new amateurs not frighten them off....