Your callsign must reflect your address

ACMA, Licencing, and Examination discussion
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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2VHF »

VK2TS wrote:My point was the ACMA are now checking if you change state? I didnt think it really mattered or should matter

If this is true, what a waste of tax payer's money. Seriously, what value does the ACMA create from this activity?

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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2AAH »

What are you talking about? They don't have a squad of Address Inspectors... they have Field Officers who, under the terms of your license, have a right to inspect and audit your station. If you move without telling them, particularly if you move interstate, it is YOU who are wasting taxpayer's money by stuffing them around in the normal course of their duties.

This whole argument is driven by a few overgrown children who can't accept a rule that has been around since most of us were in nappies. Get a grip! If you don't want to operate under the terms of your license I'm sure 27MHz awaits you!

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Richard
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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2TS »

VK2AAH wrote:What are you talking about? They don't have a squad of Address Inspectors... they have Field Officers who, under the terms of your license, have a right to inspect and audit your station. If you move without telling them, particularly if you move interstate, it is YOU who are wasting taxpayer's money by stuffing them around in the normal course of their duties.

This whole argument is driven by a few overgrown children who can't accept a rule that has been around since most of us were in nappies. Get a grip! If you don't want to operate under the terms of your license I'm sure 27MHz awaits you!

Cheers

Richard
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Yes i agree a notification of change of address to the ACMA is fine but you shouldn't have to change your callsign, That's just plain stupid. In fact nowhere is the regs does it say you have to do so. And remember the WIA are not the regulatory body the ACMA are. Its only a matter of time before someone argues the matter and sets a precedence.

The guy who forced Owen to change his callsign did not follow the ACMA regs, quite simple.

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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2AAH »

Tony,

I'm not sure I can agree with you. Under the ITU regulations the ACMA have the authority to issue callsigns... this IEEE article is worth a read:

http://www.ieeeghn.org/wiki/index.php/C ... _Australia

There is also an ITU reference:

http://life.itu.ch/radioclub/rr/art19.htm#Section%20III

Though neither provide that "smoking gun" that puts this argument to rest, it is clear that the ITU have control over the prefix group and the "administration" has control over the numeric identifier. So to say "you shouldn't have to change your callsign" is just an opinion- as far as the ITU is concerned ACMA is the "administration" for Australia and they have the authority.

I also think we need to be careful about how we deal with the "VK1OD" matter. As far as I can read this no-one forced Owen to "change" his call-sign. What they did do was determine that as he no longer operated a radio station at an ACT address he no longer was entitled to that VK1 prefix. If he didn't want to have a VK2 callsign issued he didn't have to... but if he wanted to remain a licensed amateur he did! Don't get me wrong- I think that Owen's case was pretty tough given the number of dubious cases of callsign banking going on out there...

What I haven't found, so far, is the source document that defines the state numeric identifiers. I'm sure it exists, I just haven't found it yet.

Cheers


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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2TS »

You are right VK is Australia, but it doesn't state the state designators ie: the number after VK. Nor does it state anywhere that if you move you need to change your callsign. Pretty petty on the ACMA's part i feel. Maybe they will add that condition when they finally do a LCD update along with Primary status on 7.1-7.2MHz and 400watts 50 - 54Mhz.

The hogging of call signs is disgraceful. One call per Amateur is fair. There are some two letter calls with more than one two letter calls????? Next thing Amateurs will be selling them on EBay?

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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2OMD »

VK2AAH wrote:...
I also think we need to be careful about how we deal with the "VK1OD" matter. As far as I can read this no-one forced Owen to "change" his call-sign....
I would not expect you to know the facts of this matter Richard, and you don't.

The ACMA would not change the station location on the existing licence to a NSW address unless I applied for and was issued with a recommendation for a VK2 call sign.

Government agencies often derive their power from the generality of legislation and subordinate regulation. We might think that some action is "ultra vires" (beyond their powers), and there were some shabby aspects to the process that I won't go in to, but I expect that they will be able to point to some very general provision that gives them the power to act broadly as they did.

What one finds interesting is the swiftness and determination with which they acted on the complaint of one member of the public over something that most people will recognise has little impact on anyone but train spotters in the hobby, yet having made a finding in the recent high power trial that some advanced amateurs lack awareness of their EMR obligations (which has a likely health and safety implication for the general public), there seems no public signs of prompt follow up with the wider licensee base (or perhaps it is a problem only with advanced licesees).

I would not expect anything to change in the way in which call sign issue is required. The WIA president reported in December a financial shortfall, and that usually drives efforts to maximise revenue and cut costs... I doubt they are about to sponsor anything that cuts their revenue in the short term. The WIA in its dual role of contractor to ACMA and lobbyist for amatuers has a conflict of interest.

For me, the matter is over. I hold the old call sign for another month or so until it expires, and even if someone in authority said they could unwind it all, I will not do the work to reinstate the web site so I would decline the offer.

Owen
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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2AAH »

Hi Owen,

I didn't think I had to because the logic is pretty straight forward. You no longer had an ACT station address, so clearly you needed to get a callsign that reflects your real location. I wouldn't understand what all the fuss is about if it wasn't for the many who hold more than one callsign in different states when they are very unlikely to have a "station address" in all of those states...

I'm sorry you got targeted Owen but if everyone did this it would make a mockery of recording station addresses on licenses.

Cheers

Richard
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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2OMD »

VK2AAH wrote:...

I'm sorry you got targeted Owen but if everyone did this it would make a mockery of recording station addresses on licenses.
You haven't seen my licence, you don't know of the history over recent years regarding the licence, yet you speak of what was recorded on the licence... you don't actually know.

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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2AAH »

Well if you had an ACT station address this whole discussion would never have started!

As for your comment: "The WIA in its dual role of contractor to ACMA and lobbyist for amatuers has a conflict of interest."

That would mean every community group that draws income or receives a grant from a government body has a conflict of interest... each should be judged based on what they actually do rather than such a small minded perception of the evils of money. Hams would be paying more for the service if the ACMA did it, it in turn gains income for a service being provided to amateurs... I would call that a win-win outcome.

Richard
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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2ZRH »

Owen VK2OMD posted:
I would not expect anything to change in the way in which call sign issue is required. The WIA president reported in December a financial shortfall, and that usually drives efforts to maximise revenue and cut costs... I doubt they are about to sponsor anything that cuts their revenue in the short term. The WIA in its dual role of contractor to ACMA and lobbyist for amatuers [sic] has a conflict of interest.
I expected better of you, Owen, than to make remarks displaying such ignorance. Do you claim to have no knowledge of the fact that the exam service and callsign recommendation functions the WIA performs on behalf of the ACMA are done on a cost-recovery basis under a Deed with the Commonwealth Government?

It's no secret. The WIA President's Comment columns are posted monthly on the website, here: http://www.wia.org.au/joinwia/wia/presidentsblog/, where the cost-recovery nature of these functions is discussed - sometimes at length - over the years. You refer to (the) ". . . WIA president reported in December . . .", but failed to look further into the matter, or if you did, failed to offer any qualifying information you found there.

Under the terms of the Deed, the Institute cannot derive any net financial benefit. There's an annual audit by Government auditors. That's no secret, either (and you can read about it in the same source just quoted). If the Institute gave away the callsign management function tomorrow, the Australian amateur radio community would be the poorer for it (literally!), but the Institute's financial position would not materially change, after adjustment of office arrangements to accommodate the workload reduction.

Please explain - in clear, unequivocal language - just where you sheet home the "conflict of interest". If you actually have a cogent argument, don't you have a responsibility as a citizen to take the issue to your local federal MP?

The real concerning issue with your situation, that I see, is that the ACMA acted on the "complaint" of one person, who is shielded from scrutiny - apparently by some interpretation of privacy law - and you have been denied natural justice (procedural fairness, if you like) as a result, in that the complaint (and the complainant) cannot be examined.
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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2MUS »

the requirement by the ACMA did not require you to close down your web site - the ACMA only controls call sigh allocation not domain name allocation - rather then close down the site simply put a redirection to the site with your new callsign as the domain name, over time the search engines will pick up the new site name and you can then delete the old site.

Callsigns in this country denote first country of origin next state of origin and finally identification of the station itself - you move country then you can no longer use VK you move state then you can no longer use the code for the old state - pretty simple to understand -there is a question on it in the foundation license exam.
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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK5ZLR »

VK2OMD wrote:The WIA in its dual role of contractor to ACMA and lobbyist for amatuers has a conflict of interest.

Owen
Entirely in agreement Owen.


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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2ZRH »

Explain that to me, Richard VK5ZLR. :shock:

As a director of the company (the WIA is a company, limited by guarantee, not by shares), I have a keen interest in knowing where the "conflict of interest" arises. :!:

Come on, walk me through the logical steps, as you see it. :)

Anyone else care to try it?
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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK4TS »

Just because Roger Because...
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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK7DX »

Now the WIA getting the blame?

A amateur living in vk2 and using a vk1 callsign gets dobbed in to acma.
Its very simple,if you reside and have postal address as vk2 then you should have a vk2 callsign.

What has that got to do with the WIA???

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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK5ZLR »

VK2ZRH wrote:Explain that to me, Richard VK5ZLR. :shock:

As a director of the company (the WIA is a company, limited by guarantee, not by shares), I have a keen interest in knowing where the "conflict of interest" arises. :!:

Come on, walk me through the logical steps, as you see it. :)

Anyone else care to try it?

Conflict of interest

The Wallies institute has been around for 100 years, a significant achievement for any company, limited by guarantee, not by shares. It certainly speaks volumes for the focus and direction of umpteen generations of directors. Well Done. And I certainly have no issue with the WIA doing everything it can to ensure it’s longevity.

However I submit there is conflict of interest.

If the WIA wanted to do something about the dwindling number of Amateurs it would reduce, subsidize or preferably zero the entry cost to Amateur Radio. And if in so doing the WIA eventually ran out of assets and was wound up, well so what? No skin off my nose, I don’t have on-air contacts with the WIA, I have contacts with actual living persons, not corporate entities.

This is one example of conflict of interest which immediately springs to mind, the WIA is promoting itself and its long term survival, over the long term survival of Amateur radio.
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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK3BA »

I hope the person/complainent who triggered this whole shitfight is now sitting back in their recliner and proud of their effort...

Some sandpits are never big enough I guess.

No different to rolling a rock onto a racetrack while an Aussie battler is trying his hardest around Mt Panorama...

Amateur Radio sure has it's fair share of party poopers at times.

Cheers,
Last edited by VK3BA on Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Your callsign must reflect your address

Post by VK2ZRH »

Haven't seen any logical steps yet, Richard. :?

Haven't seen any facts either. :shock:

The dogs may bark, but the caravan moves on - Arab proverb.
73, Roger Harrison VK2ZRH
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