Remote car locks - thieves sniffing for codes

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VK4GHZ
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Remote car locks - thieves sniffing for codes

Post by VK4GHZ »

This email is doing the rounds at the moment.

It actually sounds do-able.
Have a receiver listen on a remote key fob frequency, and sample the rudimentary pulse stream it sends.
You wouldn't even need to know the actual code, just sample it, and modulate your own key fob transmitter accordingly.

Anyone aware of this really happening, or is it just the usual email BS that get forwarded on without any underlying substance?

Subject: How to Lock Your Car and Why (This has Happened on Sunshine Coast)

An incident similar to this happened to a man who parked at a shopping center, on the Sunshine Coast about a month ago.

There was no sign of a break in but he lost Laptop, Navman,Camera, and other valuables from his car and the boot.
Do NOT lock your car at Shopping Malls, Service stations etc. using the remote.
Use the Car's Door Key...........

How to Lock Your Car and Why
I locked my car. As I walked away I heard my car door unlock. I went back and locked my car again three times.
Each time, as soon as I started to walk away, I would hear it unlock again!!
Naturally alarmed, I looked around and there were two guys sitting in a car next to the store.
They were obviously watching me intently, and there was no doubt they were somehow involved in this very weird situation .
I quickly chucked the errand I was on, jumped in my car and sped away.
I went straight to the police station, told them what had happened, and found out I was part of a new, and very successful, scheme being used to gain into cars.

Two weeks later, the man's son had a similar happening....
While traveling, the son stopped at a roadside rest to use the bathroom.
When he came out to his car less than 4-5 minutes later, someone had gotten into his car and stolen his mobile phone, laptop computer, sat nav, briefcase......you name it.

They do not steal your car but everything of value is gone.
He called the police and since there were no signs of his car being broken into, the police told him he had been a victim of the latest robbery tactic – there is a device that robbers are using now to clone your security code when you lock your doors on your car using your remote locking device.

They sit a distance away and watch for their next victim.
They know you are going inside of the store, restaurant, or bathroom and that they now have a few minutes to steal and run.
The police officer said to manually lock your car with the key -- that way if there is someone sitting in a parking lot watching for their next victim, it will not be you.

When you lock up with the key upon exiting, it does not send the security code, but if you walk away and use the remote button, it sends the code through the airwaves where it can be instantly stolen.
This is very real.

Be wisely aware of what you just read and please pass this note on.
Look how many times we all lock our doors with our remote just to be sure we remembered to lock them -- and bingo, someone has our code...and whatever was in our car.
My own key fob key TX only works several metres away from the vehicle, a good thing, and they would have to be listening in the vehicle next door.

But I have seen other key fobs that work considerably further, 10's of metres, and these key fob TXs would susceptible to this sniffing.

It sounds like BS, but it's do-able BS. :wink:
Adam, Brisbane
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VK2JDS
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Re: Remote car locks - thieves sniffing for codes

Post by VK2JDS »

this one did the rounds a year ago,
yes its plausible, but just locking the car standing next to it (metal) will ensure any sniffers 200 metres away overlooking the carpark wont hear it.
very low powered uhf doesnt propagate well around a carpark full of metal as you know

yes there was a utube video of 'how it was done' but it was a setup with their mates... dont be concerned

73, Dave
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Re: Remote car locks - thieves sniffing for codes

Post by VK2AVR »

It's BS, and it's not doable for any alarm of reasonable quality.

Sniffing and replaying the signal is easy. Actually getting it to open the car is not.

Any decent alarm will have rolling codes and additional protection - by way of a MAC (message authentication code, a form of digital signature) or by encrypting the whole stream. Rebroadcasting the same code (replay attack) will be ignored by the car and generating the "next code" is practically impossible.

It is possible there is a vulnerability with a particular model of car, or a particular brand/model of alarm. But it would be very isolated.
VK4GHZ
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Re: Remote car locks - thieves sniffing for codes

Post by VK4GHZ »

Even Silicon Chip published a rolling code UHF remote kit in 2009, so perhaps these are earlier more primitive central locking systems.
VK2MIA wrote:It's BS, and it's not doable for any alarm of reasonable quality.
Geoff, they're probably the same crappy alarm systems that can be set off by holding down the PTT of your 70cm FM rig whilst driving through a typical shopping center car park. :lol: :wink:
Adam, Brisbane
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Re: Remote car locks - thieves sniffing for codes

Post by VK2AVR »

VK4GHZ wrote:Geoff, they're probably the same crappy alarm systems that can be set off by holding down the PTT of your 70cm FM rig whilst driving through a typical shopping center car park. :lol: :wink:
agreed, hence the bolded part of reasonable quality :) If you buy cheap rubbish to protect a valuable asset you only have yourself to blame! I will be first in line to laugh at you too.

my car alarm came with a 3 year anti-theft warranty. the manufacturer is so confident they have done a proper job they will reimburse you if your car gets nicked!
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Re: Remote car locks - thieves sniffing for codes

Post by ZL2KL »

About 40 years ago the Sydney Harbour Bridge had boom gates that opened when you paid the toll. One particular gate could be activated by your 25w 2m fm mobile. This gate was very popular with the local 2M mobile users. Ex VK2AD now ZL2KL
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Re: Remote car locks - thieves sniffing for codes

Post by VK4TIM »

As for scanning and retransmitting remote codes, highly unlikely. Most of the later keyfobs have some form of encryption with the code sequences transmitted. Anything manufactured since about 2000 is rolling code or something quite sophisticated.

I have seen a number of locations where keyfobs just don't work, for a variety of reasons. People can't lock or unlock their cars with the remote. It keeps RACQ busy.

These emails are largely scaremongering.
Tim, VK4TIM.
QG62MM, Brisbane.
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Re: Remote car locks - thieves sniffing for codes

Post by VK2FAK »

Hi all....


Oh this is nothing new, it was done many many years ago...when the digital alarms and such first appeared...and if ya don't think the car stealing gangs have kept up with the Technology think again..

Buying cheap rubbish works....I have an old steering lock.....people look at that and put stealing the car in the, to much of a pain list,,

John
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Re: Remote car locks - thieves sniffing for codes

Post by VK2JDS »

ZL2KL wrote:Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:04 pm
About 40 years ago the Sydney Harbour Bridge had boom gates that opened when you paid the toll. One particular gate could be activated by your 25w 2m fm mobile. This gate was very popular with the local 2M mobile users. Ex VK2AD now ZL2KL
Yep,
it was the far left tollgate on the way heading south :)

keying up 100 watts of fm worked well as you drove up, as soon as the light went green I would drive the company van right through. good fun
73 from Dave vk2jds

edit : i forgot to check how many of the other tollgates went green at the same time, that would have been a good experiment !
VK4FLYN

Re: Remote car locks - thieves sniffing for codes

Post by VK4FLYN »

I would have thought if they ran the same antennas in the plaza canopy then they should all have the same behaviour. I had the opposite problem, we were converting a normal lane to an e-toll lane and installing them in Paramatta (a long time ago). While I was working on the boom gate the yank rad tech in the canopy above me decided a quick test was warranted and remotely closed the lane which dropped the boom gate along with turning the red light back on. Pucker level was off the charts as my head was at bumper level to a fully laden brickies F250 (including trailer and 2 cement mixers) screeching to a stop towards me :shock: ........On-site Aus-US relations were frosty for a little while. :evil: :evil:
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