Why do we pay such a high cost of license

[VK1TX]

To All AMETEURS, PLEASE EMAIL ANTHONY ALBANESE!
THIS MAYBE OUR CHANCE FOR THE GOVT TO REVIEW OUR HIGH COST OF OUR LICENCES.
MAYBE EVEN FOLLOW NEW ZEALAND.
REGARDS,
HERE IS MY EMAIL TO HIM:

Dear Mr Albanese
My name is Alexander Ihasz and I am a unfailing Labor voter. I would like to take this opportunity to
congratulate you on your elevation to Deputy PM and Minister for
Communications.

That brings me to my request of you, Please will have a look at the
situation of Amateur Radio Licence fees with the view of reducing or
even abolishing those fees. Even a reduction for people on pensions and
fixed incomes would help.
Australia is one of the only countries in the
world that has the yearly renewal fee set so high at $75.00.
We get
answers like it costs money to protect the spectrum that we occupy and
the spectrum that we use does not get protected, the level of
interference have to put up with is high. We are afraid that the ACMA
will put forward the proposition that Radio Amateurs should go to a
Class Licence and loose the protection of a Apparatus Licence and the
conditions contained in the Radio Communications Act and therefore have
to accept Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) from commercial businesses
and ententes.

New Zealand Amateurs enjoy Free licences for life and still have the
protection of a apparatus licence, USA has much lower fees and 5 year
renewals and Radio Amateurs still protection of the Federal
Communications Commission (FCC) and so many other countries do not have
the fee structure that is in Australia.

Amateur radio clubs in Australia are non profit and perform a very
important role in the community not unlike that of "The Mens Shed" We
can and have been used as an addition to communication in situations of
safety in outdoor sporting events and have also been used in situations
of disaster eg. flood and fire.


Kindest Regards

Alexander (TEX) Ihasz VK1TX

[VK2AAH]

Sorry Tex, I can't support you on that one... I don't want a free license because it then means I'm not entitled to any service from the ACMA. This debate has been had many times- while we pay "something" we have some influence, some expectation that if we have an issue with interference, or seek new spectrum or to protect what we have, that our views will be listened to. That will be lost if we don't pay anything.

And if you think $75 a year is a lot for the amount of spectrum Australian amateurs have assigned to them, you wouldn't want to know how much a single UHF channel would cost you in a high density area like Sydney or Melbourne.

Everyone wants things for free, probably part of the reason why hams have such a reputation for being tight a*ses...

Cheers


Richard
VK2AAH

[VK4NWH]

I think that $75 for the amount of entertainment and fun communicating with fellow hams local and around the world in many different way and the fun of experimenting with new ideas and technology is really not asking too much. $75 for a tank of fuel lasts you maybe 1 week, $75 for your licence last you 1 year. Enjoy what we have.

[VK2OMD]

... I don't want a free license because it then means I'm not entitled to any service from the ACMA....

Richard, you represent as fact that you would not be entitled to "any service from the ACMA" if you have a free licence.

I cannot recall in the discussions around 10 years ago that the ACA (at the time) ever stated that a free ham licence mean't no service from ACMA.

There are some class licences that are free that I am sure are protected strongly by ACMA, eg the Aviation Class Licence.

It seems to me that we are entitled to all protection stated or not excluded explicitly in our LCD.

Those who followed the discussions of ten years ago will remember that the ACA proposed a non-interference basis (meaning not to cause interfernce and no protection from interference) for amateur licences, and it was roundly rejected.

Most concerning now is that the current high power trial is based on a no-interference provision (meaning not to cause interference), and it seems to have been quietly accepted by those determined to get 1kW power limit (including WIA).

If the outcome of the high power trial is to revise the LCD to include the same no-interference provision generally, we might concede no-interference provisions in a very real way.

No-interference provisions will certainly limit what the ACMA will do for amateur stations

Owen

[VK2AXL]

My UK amateur license is free of charge. Talking to the guys over there, they feel there was little difference in the service provided by the authorities. It was pretty damn poor before, and its still the same

When I was still paying for my UK ticket, I was paying significantly less than I was for the aussie one.

Heres a couple of questions-

Q1. What do other countries pay for an amateur license? Is Australia in line with global trends? (The fee seems a little high to me)

Q2. What happened to other Aussie radio services that switched to free class licenses? CB. Marine. etc. Did users of those bands lose out?

I'm devils advocating a bit here. I'm on the fence on ths issue. But would like more info to ponder if anyone has any.

PS. I KNOW this thread will disolve into
"but thats only xx cents per day!"
and
"If you add up all the individual spot frequencies we can use and charge them at commercial rates that equates to 74 million billion dollars worth!"
and
"I'd gladly pay $1000 per year because I am so wealthy and everyone needs to understand my importance!".

Please dont

[VK4TI]

To All AMETEURS, PLEASE EMAIL ANTHONY ALBANESE!
THIS MAYBE OUR CHANCE FOR THE GOVT TO REVIEW OUR HIGH COST OF OUR LICENCES.
MAYBE EVEN FOLLOW NEW ZEALAND.
REGARDS,
HERE IS MY EMAIL TO HIM:

Dear Mr Albanese
My name is Alexander Ihasz and I am a unfailing Labor voter. I would like to take this opportunity to
congratulate you on your elevation to Deputy PM and Minister for
Communications.

That brings me to my request of you, Please will have a look at the
situation of Amateur Radio Licence fees with the view of reducing or
even abolishing those fees. Even a reduction for people on pensions and
fixed incomes would help.
Australia is one of the only countries in the
world that has the yearly renewal fee set so high at $75.00.
We get
answers like it costs money to protect the spectrum that we occupy and
the spectrum that we use does not get protected, the level of
interference have to put up with is high. We are afraid that the ACMA
will put forward the proposition that Radio Amateurs should go to a
Class Licence and loose the protection of a Apparatus Licence and the
conditions contained in the Radio Communications Act and therefore have
to accept Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) from commercial businesses
and ententes.

New Zealand Amateurs enjoy Free licences for life and still have the
protection of a apparatus licence, USA has much lower fees and 5 year
renewals and Radio Amateurs still protection of the Federal
Communications Commission (FCC) and so many other countries do not have
the fee structure that is in Australia.

Amateur radio clubs in Australia are non profit and perform a very
important role in the community not unlike that of "The Mens Shed" We
can and have been used as an addition to communication in situations of
safety in outdoor sporting events and have also been used in situations
of disaster eg. flood and fire.


Kindest Regards

Alexander (TEX) Ihasz VK1TX

I can't agree with your musings , compare to the zl permit and there are subtle but very important differences . the zl ticker comes with caveats because free never is , the fee we pay is gemerally not an impost generally so why not try for garner a truly representative body that might negotiate a better overall arrangement for the modest fee we do play ?

[ZL3MH]

The sayings go If you pay peanuts you get monkeys !

Over in ZL it's not all free. It's now over $50 per beacon or repeater.

I would rather like to pay! You can not demand anything because
you pay nothing. This is the worst decision NZART has ever been
involved in! You bargaining power is zero. The only thing saving
the ham bands is the international agreements. Also nobody
wants HF but as you are all a where there is much pressure on the
VHF-UHF frequencies. The other problem is there are lots of non
active and deceased hams on the list. Last thing, The government
agents administering the broadcast act in the western world are
only interested in the money they can extort out of the broadcasters
and the cell phone companies to supplement our taxes.

ZL3MH Murray

[VK5ALX]

I agree with what you say, Tex.
The UK and Canada also have lifetime licenses.
But the cost of getting a license to begin with is also excessively high in Australia.
You mention that licenses are free in New Zealand but let's also add that the examination fee is just $5. Compare that to what it costs to either enter the hobby or upgrade to a higher class over here. In NZ there is a fee of NZ$95 for callsign and certificate allocation but this includes 1 year membership to the NZART, the equiv to our WIA. Why then are the fees so high in this country, considering that exams are conducted by volunteer examiners.
I support your suggestion that we write to the minister but I think also that it is something that our WIA should be doing on our behalf. Sadly they seem more interested in supporting a proposal for 1Kw power so that a few selfish contesters can stomp all over the majority of 100 watt and 10 watt stations than they are in fighting for lower costs that will benefit all of us.

Alex VK5ALX

[VK4CZ]

According to my last license renewal (Nov '12) I paid a charge of just AUD$28, plus tax of AUD$44, for a total of just AUD$72. Or in simple terms JUST $1.38/wk (including the 157% rate of tax).

This represents significant value for money given the spectrum I have access to. In other words, my 'weekly' amateur license fee is less than a litre of fuel, less than the cheapest can of beer at Dan Murphy's, significant less than a basic coffee at any cafe, and the list goes on!

As such, I respect and understand that the amount I am charged has been significantly supported by the auctioning of spectrum, the significant cost associated with commercial license fees, and to potentially a similar extent from the pubic purse.

It's not even worthy of considering the $1.50/wk it in terms of the investment in time and equipment you have made - and from the list on your QRZ page Tex that has been significant!

Seriously, if you are arguing over a charge of circa $1.50/wk, then you need to think about what you value in respect to the amateur radio license you hold and the spectrum access that provides.

[VK2GOM]

I don't see what the problem is. We are used to paying high prices for all sorts of things in Australia without grumbling; from ham radio licenses to extortionately priced used cars, to even Mars chocolate bars being 4x more expensive than the UK.

Surely it's market driven? If we pay it, they'll continue to charge it.

It's not like they can sell off the 20m amateur spectrum in Australia either... there'd be an awful lot of QRM

My UK license is indeed free, and has been for a while. Paying big bucks for it in Australia is par for the course I think.

73 - Rob VK2GOM / GW0MOH

[VK4CZ]

"PS. I KNOW this thread will disolve into
"but thats only xx cents per day!"
and
"If you add up all the individual spot frequencies we can use and charge them at commercial rates that equates to 74 million billion dollars worth!"
and
"I'd gladly pay $1000 per year because I am so wealthy and everyone needs to understand my importance!".

Please dont"

Sorry Jack... I didn't see this before I responded by creating a discussion based on 'relative value' on the other thread (Why is there the need for two threads on the same topic???)

But as the discussion is based on the notion of cost (that it is being deemed too expensive), how else can we determine the value received and base it on a common measure if we don't attempt to link it to the stated issue?

[VK7ZGK]

What a bunch of tight wads - these are the same people who complain about cost of W.I.A. membership. get a life.
Cheers all. Graham VK7ZGK.

[VK3YE]

I wouldn't be unwilling to pay more. We still get pretty good value for our fee, leaving aside what other countries do. There's a lot of behind the scenes administration to do with spectrum management and it seems fair that spectrum users contribute rather than it coming out of taxpayers. I don't begrudge the cost of sending ACMA reps overseas if it helps win goodies such as clearing out the broadcasters to deliver 7.1 - 7.2 MHz to amateurs worldwide or a band at 630 metres.

VK amateurs are not exactly hard done by. If transceiver prices had kept up with wages/pensions over the last 30 years, we'd be paying over $5000 for an entry level HF transceiver and $10 000 for an all band box that went up to 70cm. Instead our radios cost about 1/4 what it 'should' and if what's seen on VKHam is any indication some people are sitting on mountains of gear!

Having said that it wouldn't be a bad idea to minimise entry costs, as this is where people's interest can be tentative, hesitant and prone to being killed before they start.

Would existing amateurs be willing to chip in $5 extra per year (10 cents/week) to help ensure there'll be others to work in the future? I think they would if properly explained.

For example how about a flat $20 - 30 all inclusive fee that covers assessment, marking, certificate issue and one callsign issue? To apply not only for Foundation Licence but also upgrades to Standard and Advanced. Easy to understand and a minimum of paperwork. Extras like 'vanity' callsign changes can remain at higher charges as they are not strictly necessary to enjoy amateur radio. No one would be much worse off and if anything more amateurs means a bit more activity and revenue for ACMA.

[VK2AXL]

Hi Scott

I didnt know there was another thread

I'm not suggesting that we shouldnt express our individual thoughts on the value of our license. We should.

But having been around ham radio for a few years, and on the web for a while too, I have seen this issue discussed many times, in a few different countries. This arument always goes down the "reductio ad absurdum" route with exaggerated attention seeking claims about how much some people would be willing to pay. I cant help thinging that some people believe that amateur radio can be cleared of "riff-raff" by pricing them out of it.

So it'd be nice to see a well balanced debate on license costs. I think we can all agree that as radio hams we are privileged to be allowed the large spectrum we have access to. And i think most people will agree we pay more for it than hams in other countries.

[VK5TM]

What I would like to know is:-

What is the cost of collecting our licence fee?

If it costs more to collect than the fee itself, then the argument for "free for life" or 5 year licenses may have a basis.

On the other hand, some bean counter of the shiny pants brigade may suddenly decide we should pay the actual cost of our licences.

[VK5STU]

I think it comes down simple economics. The market will tolerate this cost (well, the majority) so that is what gets charged. I believe it is not too much to pay, but I am not on a pension. I can appreciate it might be difficult for some. I am of the opinion that by paying some fee we are entitled to receive a service. By removing the fee we are de-prioritised (even further perhaps) if we need ever need the services of the ACMA (RI's etc).

[VK2GOM]

Bear in mind the originator of this topic drives a Porsche! At least according to his QRZ.com page

73 - Rob VK2GOM / GW0MOH

[ADMIN]

A note to all Forum members.
Please, there is no need to cut & paste the same topic in multiple forums. ie; spam.

It should be obvious why not!
Discussion automatically becomes fragmented, so it is counter productive to do this.

Both of these topics have been merged into this one.
By using the "View New Posts", members will see any new topics and posts, irrespective of which forum it is posted in.

[VK4TI]

Bear in mind the originator of this topic drives a Porsche! At least according to his QRZ.com page

73 - Rob VK2GOM / GW0MOH

I drive an old beater bmw , do you have a point ?

[VK4BG]

Hi Guys,

I think Robs pointing out that Tex drives a Porsche...and is apparently installing Solar Panels and asking questions about same in another forum topic...is somewhat relevant.

I pay through the nose for my power these days, and the Guy next door never stops telling me that he pays zip...actually making a profit.

Tex wants a free ride from the Govt for his hobby pursuits....I'm happy to pay.

73
Glenn
VK4BG