50MHz International Allocation - what's it really mean?

[VK4CZ]

The definition of DX on the 6m band seems to have taken on 2m and above connetations.
Many a conversation has been heard or report logged describing the working of a DX opening to VK3 from VK4. Hardly challenging or by any means representative of a DX contact (when referenced to new or seperate DXCC).

I remember when working DX reflected working a new or seperate country and not another state!

The continued concentration of domestic activity could therefore be justified by taking a view that DX is no longer deemed to infer a seperate DXCC, and hence the demise of a belief in an International allocation.

There's been arguments a plenty around the operations within these designated segments....is it about time we looked at the root of the cause and the foundations of our understanding?

I'll propose that the definition of DX relative to 6m has been lost and that it's not blatant ignorance of the band plans for the reason that the international window is awash with domestic traffic and 110 is subjected to the 'splatter' of local contacts.

Your thoughts?

[VK3SIX]

My thoughts?

The map says it all.

One isolate and a bunch of sunday drivers who like to chat.

We have to alert the dx Scotty avoid 110.

We did it last time we will do it again.

As for the E layer users, what ya gonna do mid cycle when all the e layer goes away.

[VK3ART]

Scott,
Whilst we are faced with YEARS of nothing more than interstate contacts and the occasional ZL on 6 Metres, yes, this will be DX, particularly here in VK3 and other southerly states.
50.110 ( only ) will be the calling ( listening ) frequency, "DX" or local, whether people say it should or shouldn't be.
The fact is, if you only chase foreign stations on 6, you will live a lonely existence.
Regards Russ VK3ART

[VK3SIX]

Well thats one VK3 's opinion.
From the state that broke all the records and made the world first to Antarctica.
And we shifted him to 50.2 to get out of harms way as well.

Bullshit..

[VK3ART]

BS is it.
How many of you out there have worked anything outside VK & ZL in the last 5 years on the Magic Band ?
If someone gets their kicks out of Es around VK & ZL annually, that's good / fine. If you only look for Europe & North America on 6 metres ( 3 years out of 11 ), you are not getting much from your hobby.
Furthermore, two calling frequencies on a baron & isolated band ( in VK ) like 6 metres, are unnecessary.
Yes, establish contact and move up.
Russ VK3ART

[VK3SIX]

In answer to your question Russ heaps have worked stuff as late as last April.
Personally since November I have contacted Tonga A35RK, Rotuma 3D2AG/P, Fiji 3D2ER, Noumea FK8GX et al, VK9ZLH Lord Howe, VK9NS Norfolk Is, heard AH8LG and yesterday heard JR6YAG Okinawa for 31/2 hours and worked into Western Japan.
We have been liasing with BD9BA some VK2's worked KG6DX, some VK6's worked YB1 and the beacons AH2G and JA6YBR received.
Last summer I was out fighting fires and doing AngeL Flights but managed JA0 and JH8, plus hours to VK8 Darwin like this year.
2005 in March I have a page and half of JA 1,2,3,7 and HL1.
Nov 2004 hundreds of qso's including HL and VR2 and 9M6 do I go on.

No because you have a closed mind.

And you are a s**t stirrer.


And just finished laminating the cards from 30 odd countries worked during early 2003.



So I guess thats spiltting hairs at 4.5 years.

I dont log JAs anymore by the way so have no idea how many worked in past 5 years but I'd say about a thousand.

[VK3ART]

I said how many of you. That's Steve's lot but realistically, most work nothing beyond these shores for years. Not my fault. Don't know why you see it as sh.. stirring. Just revealing facts.
Russ VK3ART

[VK4GHZ]

YB was also worked in VK6 a few weeks ago.

There is nothing wrong with working around VK/ZL, I do it to chase grid squares annually... it's about the only endeavour that can keep my interest up during the minima years.

BUT

The intra-VK stuff needs to be kept OUT of the International window.

Furthermore, two calling frequencies on a baron & isolated band ( in VK ) like 6 metres, are unnecessary.

Russ, this comment suggests you have trouble in differentiating between DX and intra-VK.
There are two calling frequencies for very good reason;
1) One is for International calling
2) One is for domestic calling, ie; within VK

It's clearly mentioned in the WIA bandplan.

Not only that, there is a whole 2MHz of space up on 52MHz.
You will get to work the standard calls up there too, and I am sure they would appreciate the QSO.

Until the two camps that inhabit 50MHz (DXers, and sporadic E brigade) can respect each other's endeavours, then this crap politics that consumes 6m will never go away.

Simple respect for one another, is all that is required to make the world a happier place.
Leave the DXers their measly 50kHz of space, and the rest of you have over 2Mhz to play with.
This is not a big ask.

[VK4GHZ]

Actually, one good thing from this discussion in this topic, and on the 6M Logger this morning, is an idea (hatched only moments ago!) that WILL be incorporated into the new Logger.

You will be able to customise what you see on the new Logger display.
Spots-only, chat-only, or everything. (Same as the history page now).

The Spots-only could then be filtered to show DX outside VK or everything.
Each individual user can decide what they wish to monitor, and what they don't.

FIGJAM!

[VK3PA]

Well as ssc24 increases I can see a vk ZOO .. cw es ssb calling on 50.110 gud fun, but when EU es SA r copied es vk to vk qso's at the same time.. last ssc not many rigs had 6m es 100w on them, but today most are equiped with 6m.so ham population will incress 10 fold on 6m .. this is gud for 6m DX but when u get many stations running dipoles/verticals all HELL will let loose..last ssc FK were calling on 50150 due to interference from their beacon..dont forget vk 6 es 8 r WAZ29 SO U NEED TO WORK THEM for WAZ..also QSL cards r needed for DXCC not like VK VHF award only log details..how many have a DX type antenna for 6m?? that use this forum? Nows the time to put up a gud DX antenna for the new ssc24

[VK5BC]

also QSL cards r needed for DXCC not like VK VHF award only log details

I think you will find that VK awards require you to have QSL cards which must be sighted by 2 licenesd calls who must sign as seen on your award application.

There is nothing wrong with working around VK/ZL, I do it to chase grid squares annually

Simple respect for one another, is all that is required to make the world a happier place.

Too true Adam, the continual by play and adhoc insults that are passed are totally unnescessary and add nothing to solving the problem (if there really is a problem??), bottom line is some only want to work the local E's, some only want to work the international "DX", some want to do both. All must co-habitat on the band and respect each others interests. I don't think you will ever get the E's people to all move to 52MHz & I don't think it is nescessary but respect and common sense must be used when operating the international segment.

73 Brian
VK5BC

[VK3SIX]

Yes there is a problem IMO Brian.

Sounds like its no holds barred to me over last 2 openings.

Mindless morons calling blindly thinking I was the JA6.



So be it.

STOMP ON ME I STOMP ON BACK!

[VK5PJ]

Yes there is a problem IMO Brian.
Sounds like its no holds barred to me over last 2 openings.
Mindless morons calling blindly thinking I was the JA6.
So be it.
STOMP ON ME I STOMP ON BACK!

Steve, as you well know from your lifes experiences, it is human nature to gravitate towards the location where any excitement occurs, eg. the possiblity of DX on 50.110 so there is little that can be done to alter human nature. To try and do this is most likely a futile activity.

May I suggest it is better for us to educate the masses (when and where possible) to move off of 50.110 ASAP rather than spit venom at them and wonder why they ignore you or worse still, QRM you when you are active? Yes I know it was tried in the ARA colums all those years ago but perhaps Brian, 5BC can start the chant again in the AR column?

A lot of the operators on 6mx are fair weather people (much like I was at first), once the Es fades away their interest drops as the "time needed" vs "fun extracted" ratio for 6mx contacts becomes too much for most people's lives.

My philoshy on this is simple, some may say its all a bit too sugar coated:

I suggest you all join in and enjoy the easy times and fun of Es contacts, sure there are some drongo's out there but you get them in EVERY part of life. The Es openings give you the chances to give the station a moderate work out in preperation for the hard slog of the rising cycle and you even get the chance to make some new friends that may turn into comrades during the rising cycle (ring any Bell's Steve) as very few of us can spend all our time listening for that next big opening. My station is nothing special and the Es opening give me the chance to try out new ideas on how to improve it's operation, new headphone, try out some differnet microphones etc. not the sort of thing you want to try out when your working a european who's english is not to good (No, morse has not improved as much as I would like).

A great example of what can be done on Es is this summers treat of A35RK for most of the eastern part of VK. I dare say Pauls efforts out there will be remembered by lots of operators. I for one needed to confirm A35 as I could not get a QSL for the last time (20 years ago). It even dragged you into activity during the period you hate most

I guess I wil stand by for the flames....

[VK4WDM]

Dear Fellow 6m fanatics. As a user, and like most of us at times, an occasional abuser of this wonderful band for over 40 years, I thought I would throw my few cents in about the calling frequency controversy.

I am a scientist by profession and did a little experiment during two weeks of the recent E's season: Each time I called CQ I called on 52.100, 50.200 and 50.110. The results were interesting: I received 1 answer on 52.100, 0 on 50.2 and 78 on 50.110. All were from VK/ZL. To be fair, my antenna does not work too well on 52 and I could have missed some weak stations, but where were the ZL's and VK std licences that are supposed to be waiting for calls up there?

What this experiement shows is the band plan is not working. If I had been a "good boy" and did not work the E's from 50.110 it would have been a very lonely season!

The fact is that we DO need separate calling frequencies for international Dx and domestic contacts and the international and domestic traffic DOES need to be separated for the benefit of BOTH groups. Anyone who has been on 6m during a SS peak understands that it DOES need to be sorted out before the next SS arcs up or it will be total chaos and bad tempers all round.

I suggest the following: An education campaign in AR and on this website. It needs to be carefully written to emphasise the benefits of the band plan to BOTH groups. Then from Dec 1st (which gives the education time to sink in) NONE of us regular users of the band reply to a call from within Oz on 50.110. The message will get round that if you want a contact then you need to call on 50.200.

Having said all that, I do think that the issue of domestic traffic in the Dx segment is a bit overblown at times. It is annoying to have domestic QRM when you are trying to work Dx but not as annoying as calling "CQ Europe" and being answered by a mob of JA's, or saying "only stations outside Italy" and finding that most of the ham population of Italy reside outside it!

73

Wayne

[ZL4DK]

I suggest the following:

NONE of us regular users of the band reply to a call from within Oz on 50.110.

This will only work if we also start monitoring the other calling frequencies and answering calls on them. I put out many calls on 52.1 when I knew the band was wide open to VK this year and only ever recieved 1 reply. (Incidently the ZL calling frequency is still published as 52.050). It's quite simple, if you really want people to move to these frequencies then YOU need to start making them active. People will gravitate to where the activity is. If you're not prepared to do this youself then don't expect others to.

[VK4WDM]

Quite apart from my "experiment" I put out plenty of calls towards ZL on 52MHZ and never received a reply even when I was working ZL on 50MHZ.

Part of the problem is that antennas tuned for the lower end of 50MHZ are really going to struggle at 52MHZ. Most of us can't justify having two separate antennas on 6m and we don't won't to compromise the system by using a tuner.

73
Wayne

[VK4GHZ]

...we don't won't to compromise the system by using a tuner.

Personally, I get sick and tired of hearing this anntenas-won't-work excuse.

[rant]
I remember this wanker VK3, and folks, he was an absolute wanker, so I make no appologies for using that term, who refused to shift above 50.120 because his homebrew "high performance" antenna dropped off above 150.
It was a convenient excuse for running the VK3-VK7 morning tropo nets on 50.115.
Such an arrogant and disrespectful attitude toward other band users.
Funny how this guy hasn't been heard of in the last decade.
Not on the DXCC list, never appeared on the DX clusters, nothing.
High performance antenna? Yeah, right!
I digress.

What exactly is the compromise, and compromise over what?
Let's face it, on 52Mhz, it's going to be a local Es contact.
You can do that with 10W and a wet piece of string - everybody knows that, so a 50MHz yagi, even via tuner, will work more than satisfactorily.

No, you are unlikely to work ZD8 long path on 52Mhz with this setup, but you're not on 52MHz to work LP DX, are you?
You're on 52MHz to work Es intra-VK and ZL.

It gets back to wanting to shift off 110, which requires a change of mindset.
This reminds me of a saying "Excuses are like arseholes... everybody has one!"

What is the problem with having more than one 6M antenna up?
I reside in a typical 840m2 surburban lot, and have a 6M7JHV on one tower, a 6M5X on another, and a 5/8 GP on a pole mounted to the fence.
Sure, both yagis are cut for 50Mhz, but the GP makes a fantastic general purpose VHF low-band antenna.
It works well at 52MHz, and often outperforms both yagis on 50MHz with Es.
The footprint (and windload) of a vertical 6M GP antenna is small and unobtrusive.
Hell, if space really is a problem, then mount the GP above the yagi. (I did that at my old VK3 QTH, all on one mast)

There really is no excuse for not moving local QSOs out of the DX segment... other than lacking the desire to do so... because that's what it comes down to.

Do you lot have the desire to fix the "problem", or not?
It time to quit the excuses and do something about it.
Talk is cheap, its actions that count.

[/rant]

Note: Above is not directed toward Wayne (who posted immediately above me), nor any other specific individual, but the entire VK group.

[VK4WDM]

As for listening on the other frequencies, I do that a lot. I cannot remember when I last heard a CQ on 50.2 or 52.1. I do not usually monitor 52.050 so I may have missed ZL's there.

A fact of life is that you not going to get many calls answered on 52MHZ anyway. Antennas that are cut for the lower end of 50MHZ struggle to cope 2MHZ higher and not many of us can justify having a separate antenna for each segment.

The bottom line is that regardless what the situation is now, and who is to blame (if blame is the right word), and whatever the cause, we all need to work to change it before Sept 2009 when the long-haul stuff starts to kick in. But we must do it in such away that we don't appear to be elitist and unwelcoming to others who want to share the excitement of the "magic band."

73

Wayne

[VK4WDM]

Ok, Adam challenged me to do something about it and I have! I found an old 6M tuner and have set it up so it can be switched in and out of the feedline as required. I now have a 1:1 match and 100W to a 7 el on 52 MHZ. The question is: is anyone going to join me or will I be talking to myself? Probably won't find out until the winter E's kick in.

73

Wayne

[VK6OX]

After almost 30 years "in the wilderness" I'm preparing to again become active on 6m (and above).

The arguments above are for me compelling - I'll be listening/calling on 50.200 for Es intra-VK in the first instance, and as I did so many years ago, I'll scan the whole 4MHz for whatever may present itself. Which means I'm happy to work stations above 52MHz as well.

50.110 - International DX (establish call, QSY).

Andy VK6OX