Is EME worth a go?

[VK4WDM]

I have a clear shot at the rising moon. My IC-756 PRO111 and my FT-847 are proven weak-signal 6m receivers using their built-in pre-amps, and I could install a mast-head pre-amp if required. My antenna is a 7 ele yagi at 9m fed with heliax. Would attempting EME with JT65 and about 90w of power be a waste of time or not? If 90W of power is a waste of time, what would be the minimum power required?

I have a limited budget and not trying to set records, just have some fun.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK3AXH]

Hi Wayne,

You may see some of the really big guns ie with large 32 and 64 yagi arrays but given the size of your antenna it would be difficult. My advice would be to build say a couple of 10 el yagi's
as a minimum or one big single yagi say on a 5 wavelength boom and see what you can pick up. There have been a few stations running 200 watts that I've been able to see with my 4x5wl
yagi's but it's difficult.

Don't be discouraged as I'm sure once you have received a signal it will whet your appetite to go onto bigger things. Initially the more metal you can get in the air the better. I see Kevin
VK4UH has recently had success using a single yagi with around 400 watts (I think) so it maybe worth having a chat to him.

Have a look on the internet at the installations of RN6BN and W5UN. My 1st EME qso was with W5UN when I was using a single 13el yagi with no elevation and 400 watts. Yes you do need a
preamp preferably mast head mounted.

Good Luck, Ian - VK3AXH

[VK2KRR]

I think Wayne is talking about EME on the 6m band ? Ian appears to be referring to 2m?

Wayne, if all you have to do is point at the rising moon and listen using JT65, then you may as well give it a go.

[VK5PO]

Hi Wayne,

Running 400w into a 7 el YU7EF yagi proved to be a bit iffy... Now that I can run a LEGAL Kw, it is not too bad.

When I put my 2 X 7el LFAs up, with elevation, I will be home and hosed!.
add to that an elevation rotator, 18db LNA and LDF4-50 feedline, and an otherwise seldom used array has a purpose anytime the moon is visible.


It is fair to say that running 100w will not be very effective... Although some people like us to believe they can do
it with just 100w on 6 metres. 400w with a pair of 6 or more element array will work ok working quite a few of the "big" stations.

Cheers.
John

[VK4WDM]

Hi Iain and Leigh

Yes, the 6m band. I have many weak-signal, long-haul terrestrial contacts, including LP Sth America, with my present 6m station using 100W of CW and SSB, and my HF JT65 setup is working well.

I guess the first thing is to see if I can hear anything off the moon. What frequency is used for JT65 on 6m and where can I find info on the best time to listen?

I don't have a elevation rotator so I guess that the "window" will be quite short before the moon moves away from my antenna position?

Once I can hear sigs I can can see what can be done on the transmitting side.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK6OX]

Hi Wayne,

read this.

It will give you some good background on what you can achieve on 6m EME.

[VK3KH]

Wayne,
If you are serious about operating 6 metre EME, then you should email Lance Collister W7GJ. He is by far the most ardent advocate for it....IN THE WORLD. He has lots of articles on line, so try:

http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/DXPEDITIONS.htm

This article has a number of stations with 7 element yagis, and he even discusses PA's.
Be aware, however, Lance is extremely passionate, and once you decided to give it a go, he will encourage you. When we were planning the last VK9NA expedition and announced we would be undertaking 2 m EME, Lance must have sent me half a dozen emails trying to encourage us to equip for 6m EME.

It would be a real challenge, but well worth a go, and I think it would be achievable with your 7 element Yagi.

Please keep us informed through this medium of what you decide.

Michael VK3KH

[VK2FLR]

ON4ANT once got a partial decode from me in 2002 on 50MHz EME. I had a temporary 9 el yagi up for the occasion and was running 100w on JT44, the precursor to JT65.

So it can be done.

[VK5ZD]

... one big single yagi say on a 5 wavelength boom ...

30m boom! That's one big yagi

73
Iain

[VK3AXH]

Wayne,

Sorry I got the band wrong. I will blame it on my old age. BTW 5 wl on 2mx is 10m not 30m. Hope I got this bit right as I have 4 of them.

good Luck, Ian - VK3AXH

[VK4WDM]

My beam is pointed to the moon but what frequency should I be listening on?

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[YU7EF]

Wayne

For couple of years I worked several stations on 6m EME with only 7 el. yagi and 100W delivered from FT847 so there is no reason
to be reluctant about at least taking a listen when best EME conditions (low DGR and noise temperature) ... log in to ON4KST JT65
EME chat room and you will see where people are ... particularly pay attention to 50.190 where W7GJ is working and you will see
if you can copy him and I am almost certain you will - I use to call Lance 6m EME beacon as I always can receive him, even when
conditions are not perfect ... best I heard him was as good as -12dB with perfect audio speaker copy so you have a picture of what
is possible ... don't hesitate, give it a go

With some 500W and your 7 el. yagi you should be able to work at least 10 stations in very short time ... if you have fairly flat and
clear horizon than your ground gain will be exceptional which helps a lot

Attached are few screen shots of what I received with 7 el yagi at 11m above the ground - 22m H1000 coax run, no mast head LNA

Pop, YU7EF

[VK4WDM]

Hi Pop

That is very encouraging, thank you! I thought I would be working Europe on 6m terrestial this week but nothing so far

Not like last cycle when we worked dx every night.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK4ABW]

Hi Wayne. For where you are located (and limited space), my recommendation would be a pair of 6M7JHV's, a pre-amp and good feedline. You mentioned that you have LDF4-50 but, does it run from the back of your radio to the rotator...and then some good lcf 1/2 or equivalent around the rotator and straight to the feed point?

Make sure the antenna is clear of the trees to maximise ground gain. 6m7jhv's are very light (1 hand job) & a pair of them would enchance your TEP and give you the edge required for EME.

Use the ON4KST EME web page. You will be able to see who is playing EME on 6 and where we all operate.

I will be at Bluewater between 21 - 24th April doing investment property inspections, visiting family, decanting a tower, etc. If your serious about it, i can bring over a 3cx800 for some grunt ? price - negotiable.

That's my 2c worth.
Gary
VK8AW/VK4ABW

[VK4RF]

I am in the process of sourcing material now for my attempt at 6MT EME as well. Got to be more in life than just HF

[VK3DXE]

..... (1 hand job).....

That's my 2c worth.
Gary
VK8AW/VK4ABW

[VK3AUU]

Wayne, if you have a clear shot of the horizon you will get about 5.5 db of extra gain. Try listening for W7GJ for a start. You should get him at least at -25, possibly even -23. If you have elevation you will be that 5.5 db worse off. I have been there and done the measurements. You probably need a bit more grunt to work him because he is running 1500 watts out. JR2HCB is another good one to listen for. Also, try measuring sun noise on the rising and setting moon. That will give you a good guide as to where your peak gain is.

Good luck

David
VK3AUU

[VK4ABW]

Thanks Alan

Glad someone got a laugh out of it.

de Gary
VK8AW / VK4ABW

[VK4WDM]

I am going to have a go at maximising my receive ability first, which will obviously be useful for terrestrial work as well. If I can hear signals off the moon I will think about increasing my ERP, although I have to be mindful of EMR requirements at this QTH.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

[VK3DXE]

Thanks Alan

Glad someone got a laugh out of it.

de Gary
VK8AW / VK4ABW

Sorry, couldn't resist Gary. Just happened that somebody recently brought up Mike, VK2FLR's, comment about EME being better than sex.

On a serious note Wayne, Google 6m EME and select "images". A great way to skim through a lot more info than a regular search. Lance and others have been working hard to get people active. I just wish I had enough real estate and a quiet enough location.