6M Poll

Magic band discussion - antennas, propagation, operating, etc
VK4WDM

Re: 6M Poll

Post by VK4WDM »

I think one of the issues is that the 6m DXers don't take the time to explain why they need space, they just say they want it.

Firstly I need to point out there are two types of DX on 6m "routine" and "weak signal" DX. (this is not scientific - just the experience of an "old guy" on 6m).

Routine DX would be the classic TEP openings into Asia. These are usually accompanied by lots of propagation indicators and signals are strong. They can complete quite well with any VK traffic. You could even include strong openings from Europe like those of the last cycle - 1KW Italians are certainly able to make themeselves heard :D

Weak signal DX is different. This is the multi-hop Es from North America, auroral back scatter, or signals that use multi-modes on their path to VK. There are probably modes out there that we have not discovered yet.

A typical example would be long path between VK and South America. Tbe signal has crashed through the auroral curtain which as attenuated it and given it a "polar flutter." As it travels south it is constantly changing from horizontal to vertical polarisation which atenuates it further. It might lob into JA on the way down and continue its journey by TEP (and get another sort of flutter). If its the right time of the year it might even hitch a ride on some Es.

So it arrives in VK as a weak, watery, distorted, highly QSB prone signal maybe R3 S1. (Not always the case of course - some LP sigs are quite strong). Sometimes voices sound quite odd, and CW can be so chopped up that dahs can sound like dits. And it can be very fleeting. The only West Africans I have heard had come and gone in under a minute (and they we remarking about how poor the conditions were: if only they had listened!).

These signals can be accompanied by weird band noise - roaring, rushing, even groaning sounds. At other times that band appears absolutely dead, no signal, no noise. The first LP LU I worked came up on such a band.

Now a concrete example from a only week ago:

I noticed that there was an increase in surging band-noise to the north-east and I heard what appeared to be very very weak SSB and CW coming from that direction on 50.110. I am sitting there with headphones on, 2 stages of receiver of pre-amp and one external pre-amp on, narrow-band filters in, and the gains up, trying to make out the weak signals when an S9+ VK2 called CQ, and was answered by a heap of other VK's. I had just sorted out my receiver overload and ear overload, and got back to looking for the weak signals when the whole CQ cycle started again.

I have no idea where those weak signals were coming from, no idea what method of propagation. A missed opportunity - absolutely, and at both ends. That might have been a new country for me, and it might have been the DX station's only ever chance of working VK. Would the majority of the 6m ops care, probably not.

And for those who say "I should have been able to hear the DX under the VK's" - sorry, absolutely impossible, no matter how good an operator you are. Its not just the QRM, its the very nature of the DX signals is the problem, and very importantly and often overlooked, the degrading of the receiver by strong signals in the same bandpass. (I usually run 8dB of attenuation when working VK's to prevent overload).

So to play the same violin again. I am absolutely for more activity on 6m - come on! fill the band up, its wonderful. The more RF we get in the air, and the more ears are listening, the bigger the chance of alerting a DX station that the VK's are alive and well.

But, and it IS an important but. We do need somewhere to hear and work that weak DX that is clear of domestic clutter, as I have attempted to illustrate above.

The problem is the we have a classic "catch 22" situation. Most of the current 6m ops have never had the excitement of working 6m DX - if they did, they would be hooked and would be supporting the arguments for keeping 50.110 clear of domestic traffic, but the current situation is that by clogging the DX calling frequency, they won't hear it anyway, so they can't work it and get hooked!

OK this cycle is crook, but the fact is that some weak signal DX is being worked despite the conditions, and very importantly' is also being missed. Isn't that more of a reason to improve the chances by adhering to the band plan?

Sorry Steve, you "poll" seems to have been hijacked, but it has led to some very interesting input and viewpoints from people who don't usually take part in 6m discussions.

73

Wayne VK4WDM

(Back to building my 600m rig - you don't have to be crazy to be a ham, but it sure helps :D )
VK5STU

Re: 6M Poll

Post by VK5STU »

Well I for one made my first 6m contact last weekend in the contest with a home made moxon, out portable. I was quite pleased to make both SSB and FM contacts and was looking forward to setting up things back at the QTH for more 6m work but judging by what I am reading I may not like what i find. I hope that is not the case. I stick to the band plans and try to be a good operator but there are many other bands/modes/interests to focus on if I find it is a mad house. I really hope that is not the case as I have wanted to get on 6m for a while.

Cheers,

Stu
VK4WDM

Re: 6M Poll

Post by VK4WDM »

Hi Stu

Don't be put off by the "madhouse tag." Some of us do have strong opinions and are a bit rude at times but I don't think it is any worse than other AR groups or even other special interests groups. In actual fact, despite of our reputation for taking the p--- out of each other at times, the 6m community is in fact a very supportive one and willing to jump in and help each other if the need arises.

6m is a facinating band and caters for a wide range of interests - long haul weak signal DX, intra-VK via sporadic E, general fun chatter, meteor skip etc. Sometimes these various interests get in each others hence the debate on the use of calling frequencies, but after a bit of bleating, huffing and snorting we get back to doing what we love best - talking to people on the radio. :D

I work all bands and have been on 6m since the mid 1960's and still find it to be lots of fun. Jump in, you won't regret it :D

73

Wayne VK4WDM
VK4DU

Re: 6M Poll

Post by VK4DU »

Look, you blokes.

Why is this so hard?

Why does it have to turn into a pissing match and ego contest?

If you do not want domestic calling on .110, just say so....

Put an item on the WIA broadcast, FFS!

Ask the WIA to publicise the agreement in AR.

Write an article explaining the often very weak/transitory nature of serious 6m DX, etc, etc.

Talk about making Mt. Everest from a pile of rocks...!
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VK6OX
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Re: 6M Poll

Post by VK6OX »

VK4DU wrote:Look, you blokes.

Why is this so hard?

Why does it have to turn into a pissing match and ego contest?

If you do not want domestic calling on .110, just say so....

Put an item on the WIA broadcast, FFS!

Ask the WIA to publicise the agreement in AR.

Write an article explaining the often very weak/transitory nature of serious 6m DX, etc, etc.

Talk about making Mt. Everest from a pile of rocks...!
Hmmm...that tired old adage "All care and no responsibility" comes to mind.
73
Andy VK6OX

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
VK4TI
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Re: 6M Poll

Post by VK4TI »

VK6OX wrote:
VK4DU wrote:Look, you blokes.

Why is this so hard?

Why does it have to turn into a pissing match and ego contest?

If you do not want domestic calling on .110, just say so....

Put an item on the WIA broadcast, FFS!

Ask the WIA to publicise the agreement in AR.

Write an article explaining the often very weak/transitory nature of serious 6m DX, etc, etc.

Talk about making Mt. Everest from a pile of rocks...!
Hmmm...that tired old adage "All care and no responsibility" comes to mind.
Personally I consider most of the claims quite self serving in many respects , obviously calling cq means local and further , of course local from say here to the other side in vk6 could cover several countries in Europe , to me that's still a good distance by normal rules . A local contact means move quickly up onto another frequency if you must.
Cqdeeggs translates as no local contact thanks , nothing hard about it . With the influx of hf/vhf combo rigs the rules will and are changing no matter how grumpy some get that's life fellas , time to extract the broomstick .
VK2XAX
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Re: 6M Poll

Post by VK2XAX »

Hi all,

Had my first 6m contacts in the contest on the weekend just using my HF dipole from my new rig.

Winds providing... I'll be installing a 3 el beam on Saturday to come play on 6

I look forward to working you guys :)

cheers

Tim
--

VK2XAX :: QF56if23 :: BMARC :: WIA :: AMSAT-VK
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VK3ALB
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Re: 6M Poll

Post by VK3ALB »

Seems the weekend was one of 6m firsts. Using 100W into a discone I worked VK4WIE in QG63KQ.
Lou - VK3ALB

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VK3MEG
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Re: 6M Poll

Post by VK3MEG »

I'm glad I didn't spend too much time over summer on 6m I'll play happily on 10m as peter said they are both similar. 10's a bit easier.
cheers
cheers
Steve now known as vk3ktt
QF22GG
VK2XQ

Re: 6M Poll

Post by VK2XQ »

My thoughts exactly Andy VK6OX, if we are going to take the seemingly eternal 110/200 debate seriously, then do something really constructive about it instead of grumbling amongst ourselves. :wink:

VK4TI is also most correct in saying the old gentlemens agreement that "CQ" means a general call to anyone, and that "CQDX" means outside of Australia. Pretty simple really, with no ruffled feathers or lost sleep... :roll:

Jack D. Haden VK2XQ (one of the original Grumpy Old Men :evil: , and proud of it!) QF-56ne Sydney NSW
VK2JH

Re: 6M Poll

Post by VK2JH »

Well, some interesting and not so interesting points re 6m.

First, let me say that I would fail the quiz/poll. When I was first licensed in 1976 as VK2ZMT, I was restricted to 6m and above, so no real long distance contacts. 2m sideband was carried out by some but not many and so I was introduced to 6m via a FT101E and FT650B transverter. We were restricted to 52 - 54 MHz, with 52.050MHz as the calling frequency. I knew that I would never re-invent the wheel nor a new form of transmission/propagation, so I was and still am in it for the fun, making the odd aerial and operating from home and on field days.

Like most, I did not give a rat's behind whether the contact was via Es, meteor or troppo, as long as it came along from time to time. With a young family then, I did not nor still do not "live" by the radio, so any contacts that I made and do make, come more by accident than planning. If a W6 or a KL7 came along great, if someone else got there and you didn't.... who cared. I remember that we called on 52.050 and then moved or, if no one else appeared to be there, we stayed there. No frequency police, but good manners did prevail and 6m was known as the gentlemen's band. I guess, that with the proliferation of the newer rigs with HF and 6m, there will naturally be more with the ability to come on 6m.

It's easy, go into it for the fun, if it is not, then switch bands or go and talk to the family!!

See you on 6.... hopefully :D

John
VK4JHC/VK2JH
Mount Hallen 4312 Qld
QG62EQ
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VK6OX
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Re: 6M Poll

Post by VK6OX »

VK2XQ wrote:My thoughts exactly Andy VK6OX, if we are going to take the seemingly eternal 110/200 debate seriously, then do something really constructive about it instead of grumbling amongst ourselves. :wink:

VK4TI is also most correct in saying the old gentlemens agreement that "CQ" means a general call to anyone, and that "CQDX" means outside of Australia. Pretty simple really, with no ruffled feathers or lost sleep... :roll:

Jack D. Haden VK2XQ (one of the original Grumpy Old Men :evil: , and proud of it!) QF-56ne Sydney NSW
Yep...from one Grumpy Old Man to another!! :lol: :lol:
73
Andy VK6OX

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
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