How hard can it be?

[VK3ALB]

I think we all hear it often enough

4CP - 3ALB, blah, blah, blah.
3ALB - 4CP, blah, blah, blah.

It seems there's a contact between a station in Mexico and a station in Monaco. There's a VK at the front of our call signs yet plenty of operators seem to be incapable of pronouncing their complete call sign.

How hard can it be to pronounce a complete call sign?

[VK2XQ]

It's the gradual degregation and decline of standards of this once great hobby Lou, that's all it is, pure and simple. Sloppy operating seems acceptable these days for some reason.

No band is spared, no state can be singled out, sad, but so very much real. Then there are the "mumblers" who actually say the full callsigns but cannot be understood, and English is not their second language either...

Not withstanding those who fail to master the standard ITU phonetic alphabet and wonder why a foreign station keeps asking for a repeat on the callsign!

Jack Haden VK2XQ a proud member of "GOM"

[VK3ALB]

It's the gradual degradation and decline of standards of this once great hobby Lou, that's all it is, pure and simple. Sloppy operating seems acceptable these days for some reason.

Well Jack, if that is the case then the hobby has been in decline for a very long time. There are articles in AR dating back to at least the early 60's reminding operators to use their complete callsign.

[VK2AVR]

The world is always going to s**t, so don't get too worked up

Agree that it's sloppy practice particularly on HF. Even if you think the propagation is local you can be wrong. I have had reports of people hearing my signal far further than ever imagined.

I occasionally inject "MIA" into our local repeater when joining in, with local members ragchewing they sometimes forget to leave a few seconds gap. I will (always, I hope!) follow it up with my full call once I'm brought in. I do find it quite entertaining that things are quite informal between regulars but if someone else pops up then suddenly everyone is on their best behaviour - passing control by callsign rather than first name and acknowledging every over etc. I think this is just how it goes and is a courtesy to the new party so they can keep track of what's going on. Since the regulars know each other by voice we just stick to the callsign every 10 minutes. I daresay you were listening to 2 ragchew regulars but rather than be lazy with their signs they should just use first names and then announce their call every 10 minutes.

[VK3HJ]

I've never been one to nag or scold others for their shortcomings. But we can whinge about them here!
My approach is to operate to the very best of my ability.
When I am in direct conversation with a mumbler or a truncatist, or a phone operator with atrocious modulation, I will point it out. Sometimes people are just too lazy to make the most of their abilities.
Too often one hears others give reports of "excellent audio" to stations with significant distortion. But that is sometimes rather subjective.
And I dislike "nets", but sometimes call in to pass the time when driving. What does especially irritate me is lack of net discipline, such as people commenting out of turn.
I think I qualify as a "GOM" too!
73 and behave yourself, or I'll hear about it!
Luke VK3HJ

[VK2KRR]

4CP - 3ALB, blah, blah, blah

Lou, looks like you and Adam are the culprits going by the callsigns!

[VK2PR]

Not withstanding those who fail to master the standard ITU phonetic alphabet and wonder why a foreign station keeps asking for a repeat on the callsign!

That's a pet hate of mine. I don't know why some stations think that "Zanzibar" is easier to understand than "Zulu" on a noisy HF frequency.

Peter VK2MHZ

[VK3ALB]

4CP - 3ALB, blah, blah, blah

Lou, looks like you and Adam are the culprits going by the callsigns!

Now Leighroy, it's just possible I chose those two callsigns to protect the guilty.

[VK6ADF]

Back in the dark ages, Ye Olde Days, when we actually had radio inspectors, (around 1979), I made the mistake when someone locally called me, of saying 6NDF (which was my novice call then) with a RI standing in my shack along side of me. I got told then in quite clear terms that my callsign was VK6NDF not 6NDF and to this day I have not abbreviated my callsign since. I do hate hearing the VK being dropped.

Actually, I never did abbreviate it much but isn't it usually the case that one of the few times I did, I got caught. Never again.

[VK2GFR]

We should ALL be proud of who & where we are on the radio bands.

HF in particular, but no lesser the many other VHF/UHF bands that are worked at very low power or for working weak long distance paths.
Don't be speaking too casually, as a DX station might just be hunting for you!! (& you might just well miss-out ) if he/she is not persistent in trying to decipher your half baked spoken call-sign.

So... If "this is V K 2 G F R" (apply applicable call sign) is way too hard to say and even harder to pronounce Phonetically (on SSB or FM) then maybe back to the chess board or checkers are more the requirement?
Maybe JUST SPEAK CLEARLY & the way it is supposed to be done by the regulations we amateurs abide all by.

[VK2CSW]

I really wish my life was so simple and uncluttered that when I heard someone abbreviating a callsign, or using words other than those cast in the Rosetta stone of the ITU's phonetic alphabet, that my hackles would rise and I would feel the need to harp on about it on some relatively obscure website.

Talk about first world problems.

<insert picture of a slowly shaking head here>

[VK4MIA]

The only thing I'd like to add to this thread is not the use of shortened callsigns but the lack of phonetically telling me your callsign.

The number of times during our DX'ped to Moreton and also the SES for VI4WIP50, that operators would call us with just the letters!!

Yes, some of them maybe easy to grasp but when you're not the only one calling us it makes it bloody difficult.

Give me your full callsign the first time then we can use just the letters once you're in the log correctly.

Nothing worse than trying to guess a callsign and have the operator at the other end say "no my callsign is......"

Give it to me phonetically the first time and I won't get it wrong, capeesh!

[VK3PY]

Peter VK2MHZ wrote:

I don't know why some stations think that "Zanzibar" is easier to understand than "Zulu" on a noisy HF frequency

For the simple reason that "Zanzibar" works much better than "Zulu". My previous callsign was VK3BRZ. I learned from repeated experience on HF that if the other operator was going to mis-copy a letter, it would invariably be the "Zulu". One go with "Zanzibar" would get my callsign across clearly. In the end I capitulated and went with the flow.

I think this preoccupation with ITU phonetics is a bit tedious. Use what works. If the other operator is having difficulty copying a letter, try changing to a phonetic that might sound more familiar to him.

Chas
VK3PY

[VK3ALB]

I think this preoccupation with ITU phonetics is a bit tedious. Use what works. If the other operator is having difficulty copying a letter, try changing to a phonetic that might sound more familiar to him.

Chas
VK3PY

Agreed. When conditions are tough sometimes the other station just can't copy my call using ITU phonetics. I think it's partially due to noise at their end and partially due to my pronunciation not being American enough although sometimes I have the same problem in Oz. Sometimes throwing on an American accent helps other times giving up on "Alpha Lima Bravo" and substituting "America London Boston" does the trick. Strangely, they always get the VK.

[VK2MUS]

I don't know why some stations think that "Zanzibar" is easier to understand than "Zulu" on a noisy HF frequency

Zulu is the Nato Standard zanzibar is the DX standard the old standard would be zebra.

With the Nato standard Zed is also acceptable. When dealing with operators who do not have english as their first language the DX standard makes more sense ( it is based on city and country names)

The Nato standard is ideal for cival aviation as english is the main primary language in international aviation.
john

[VK2AVR]

Agreed. When conditions are tough sometimes the other station just can't copy my call using ITU phonetics. I think it's partially due to noise at their end and partially due to my pronunciation not being American enough although sometimes I have the same problem in Oz. Sometimes throwing on an American accent helps other times giving up on "Alpha Lima Bravo" and substituting "America London Boston" does the trick. Strangely, they always get the VK.

I have the same issue with the M. "Mike" just does not carry when you're in the noise. Something more obvious like "Madagascar" would probably do much better for me (or Michigan talking to a yank.. )

[VK3PY]

Quoting VK3FJRS:

Zulu is the Nato Standard zanzibar is the DX standard the old standard would be zebra

As one wag remarked, that's the beauty of standards, we have so many to choose from!

However, the point is well made. ITU phonetics are all very well, but operators whose language is not English may have difficulty with them. Using familiar words can only help. It is instructive to listen to foreign operators speaking in their own language. For example, South Americans (que en su mayoria hablan Espanol) often use the phonetic "Paraguay" for P. Go tell them they should use ITU phonetics..........

Chas
VK3PY

[VK4MIA]

I have the same issue with the M. "Mike" just does not carry when you're in the noise. Something more obvious like "Madagascar" would probably do much better for me (or Michigan talking to a yank.. )

Having the same letters as you Geoff I have only found a few occasions that the "M" is the only letter they have trouble with under poor conditions.

A simple "Mexico" always does the trick

But a question for ya Geoff as I'm curious......so many times they confuse the "4" with a "2" don't ask me why they sound nothing alike, do you get the same problem in reverse?

73

[VK3HJ]

Phonetics: First time, use the ITU standard. If that doesn't work, try alternatives. NOT the other way around. I HATE put on accents. Just speak clearly!
Re: the comment about "first world problems", it most certainly is such. But if he was a DXer, such a first world problem would affect him too. There would be almost nothing at all on this board that could be considered universally important.
Another annoyance (read "first world problem") is people calling with partial callsigns, such as a suffix or even a part thereof, such as in a phone pileup. My policy is to ignore them, until they use their full callsign.
In fact, I couldn't be bothered with SSB pileups at all. I still enjoy a proper chat, on phone or CW.

[VK3ALB]

Phonetics: First time, use the ITU standard. If that doesn't work, try alternatives. NOT the other way around. I HATE put on accents. Just speak clearly!

Luke,

I think I'm the only one that mentioned changing accents so I'll explain. Firstly, I'm not saying I put on an accent like "Howdy y'all, let's go git us some of that there DX!". The Australian accent is in some cases not so easy to understand and even though I speak clearly when I say Lima it sounds like Leeemah (think of the aussie pronunciation and compare it to the american or european pronunciation). No doubt you'd pick it out of the noise without problem but sometimes folks from the other side of the world just can't understand me so I have to change my pronunciation (Liiimah) to suit.

When I have problems with phonetics it's Delta or Oscar instead of Alpha, India instead of Lima and no copy on Bravo. I have developed a number of strategies to get my callsign across in difficult conditions. These includes alternate phonetics and changing my pronunciation to what in my mind sounds more American. The proof for me that they are successful strategies is in my log book.