Computers: sigh...
Oh, My Little Problem goes like this:
My desktop PC has a Gigabyte P55-UD3P motherboard with what appears to be an inbuilt soundcard, and uses a Realtek ALC888 audio codec.
When I feed audio from my rig to the audio Line In, with WSJT running, the WSJT audio level display tells me the level is -39; ie low.
If I increase the level from the rig, the level display increases momentarily; but once I stop increasing the level from the rig, the audio level display drops back again until it is sitting back at an unusable -39 or so.
It's as if the sound card/codec has an ALC on the Line In. The same thing happens when I try to feed in via the Mic In.
I searched a few other forums, and came across the good old "Update your driver" suggestion. This chap had had a similar problem, and had updated from v5.10.0.5268 to 5.10.0.5502 - this had fixed his problem.
However, my driver is 5.10.0.5874 - and appears to be the latest version for this codec and "soundcard".
And the $*!# "GUI" that runs the audio setup does not seem to have any mention anywhere about ALC, enabled or otherwise. There is no mention of ALC in the handbook, either. (Yes, I read it!)
I don't have any of these problems with my old Toshiba TE2100 lappie... But, I want the desktop to work, rather than running two computers on the desk! (Besides, the lappie is supposed to be for portable WSJT stuff...)
FWIW, running XP as the OS.
If anyone has had, or heard of, a similar problem and knows the fix: PLEASE PLEASE tell me.
Will consider a second, more suitable (ie actually works) soundcard suggestion, but want something that is installed inside the case, not another USB dongly-thingy (I'm not made of USB ports, to paraphrase Sid Snot, and they do tend to make far too many noises on 2 m).
73,
Barry
VK3BJM
My Little Problem.
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VK5PJ
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Re: My Little Problem.
Hi Barry,
some drivers for sound cards have a setting burried in the advanced setting for the microphone input called "Mic boost" and I have some recolection of my Del laptop having an option for Auto Level option instead of Mic Boost but have not looked for ages.
You say you are using the Line input, so my suggestion is probably of no use. One thing I would suggest is plugging in some speakers and a normal PC microphone (or headset) and go through the sound test wizard where they show the inputs and outputs in real time and help you get them set. It might be that WSJT has selected the wrong sound input.
Look on the black and white CMD prompt box that is opened by WSJT to see what it reports when started up, there is a number assigned to each audio stream available on your PC. The numbers in your WSJT setup must correspond to the numbers assigned to your input and output stream or you will have no luck with it. (will try to get a screen shot for you)
Peter, vk5pj
some drivers for sound cards have a setting burried in the advanced setting for the microphone input called "Mic boost" and I have some recolection of my Del laptop having an option for Auto Level option instead of Mic Boost but have not looked for ages.
You say you are using the Line input, so my suggestion is probably of no use. One thing I would suggest is plugging in some speakers and a normal PC microphone (or headset) and go through the sound test wizard where they show the inputs and outputs in real time and help you get them set. It might be that WSJT has selected the wrong sound input.
Look on the black and white CMD prompt box that is opened by WSJT to see what it reports when started up, there is a number assigned to each audio stream available on your PC. The numbers in your WSJT setup must correspond to the numbers assigned to your input and output stream or you will have no luck with it. (will try to get a screen shot for you)
Peter, vk5pj
Peter Sumner, vk5pj
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
- Winston Churchill
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
- Winston Churchill
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VK2KRR
Re: My Little Problem.
Barry, also I find some programs are different with the audio settings, for instance if I switch between WSJT and WSPR I have to adjust the left to right balance settings for the master volume I think it is.
Some work with the balance in the middle and some work with the setting all the way to one side for me.
Maybe try the Mic input rather than the line in.
Some work with the balance in the middle and some work with the setting all the way to one side for me.
Maybe try the Mic input rather than the line in.
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VK2AVR
Re: My Little Problem.
I doubt the sound card has ALC/AGC - never heard of that before.VK3BJM wrote:If I increase the level from the rig, the level display increases momentarily; but once I stop increasing the level from the rig, the audio level display drops back again until it is sitting back at an unusable -39 or so.
I have the same motherboard, so I'm interested in knowing what the cause is. It sounds to me like either the PC is injecting sound as the volume changes (like when you change volume the OS makes a "ding" sound so you can gauge how loud the volume is). Either that or it could be a grounding issue or something??
Try an independent bit of software (eg Audacity - it's open source) and record the input both through the line in and microphone inputs. Play it back from your speakers and also look at the waveform and see. Might give some clues about what's going on - especially if it sounds garbled.
Unless it's a driver issue or an individual fault it shouldn't be attributed to the motherboard. I've definitely used the mic input on mine and it works fine. fairly sure I've used line-in too but I couldn't guarantee it. Using Win7 64bit.
Geoff
Re: My Little Problem.
Hi Barry,
Maybe a long shot, but it could be WSJT that's the problem here. -39dB is about where it will sit when you haven't clicked "monitor", which means that WSJT isn't actually receiving the audio in the first place.
I'd try re-installing WSJT and see if that makes any difference.
The other thing worth looking at is whether you have front and rear audio ports. You may need to tell the machine which port to default to. Are you running your audio from the front or the rear ports? If you are running you rig interface audio from the rear ports and then have something plugged into the front ports, the front will override the rear, if that makes sense.
Good luck.
Maybe a long shot, but it could be WSJT that's the problem here. -39dB is about where it will sit when you haven't clicked "monitor", which means that WSJT isn't actually receiving the audio in the first place.
I'd try re-installing WSJT and see if that makes any difference.
The other thing worth looking at is whether you have front and rear audio ports. You may need to tell the machine which port to default to. Are you running your audio from the front or the rear ports? If you are running you rig interface audio from the rear ports and then have something plugged into the front ports, the front will override the rear, if that makes sense.
Good luck.
Alan VK3DXE
QF21nv
QF21nv
My Little Problem.
Barry
I had some trouble with sound I/o and found that my Line in was not enabled in the windows sound mixer panel. Or it was muted or turned down - it was last year.
If you feed a line level source into it - on both channels (this is a stereo duplex sound card right?) you should get sound out the speaker line. Check it all works and makes sense before introducing additional software.
The channels allocated to each sound input and output do vary but I have only seen that happen when a second sound card was introduced.
Those sound channels have to be set in the wsjt setup screen then wsjt has to be restarted. It doesn't handle live changes well.
But you've probably got it sorted by now.
Andrew Davis VK1DA & VK2UH
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Vk1da.info vkfaq.ampr.org vk9na.com
I had some trouble with sound I/o and found that my Line in was not enabled in the windows sound mixer panel. Or it was muted or turned down - it was last year.
If you feed a line level source into it - on both channels (this is a stereo duplex sound card right?) you should get sound out the speaker line. Check it all works and makes sense before introducing additional software.
The channels allocated to each sound input and output do vary but I have only seen that happen when a second sound card was introduced.
Those sound channels have to be set in the wsjt setup screen then wsjt has to be restarted. It doesn't handle live changes well.
But you've probably got it sorted by now.
Andrew Davis VK1DA & VK2UH
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Vk1da.info vkfaq.ampr.org vk9na.com
Re: My Little Problem.
I use a great little utility called Quickmix. It saves the setup of your sound mixer in a file. So I set up my system for WSPR and save a file I call WSPR. Then if I run PSK and it's different I setup the mixer/soundcard for that and save it as PSK and so on for all modes or programs I use. So if I run echolink I load quickmix load the echolink file and the sound system is set up for mic input, mic boost, full volume etc etc. When I go back to WSPR I load quickmix, load the WSPR file and away we go. I think you get the idea.VK2KRR wrote:Barry, also I find some programs are different with the audio settings, for instance if I switch between WSJT and WSPR I have to adjust the left to right balance settings for the master volume I think it is.
Some work with the balance in the middle and some work with the setting all the way to one side for me.
I have used it for years. Might be of use to you Leigh. Works for me.
Not sure if it works with Win7
http://www.ptpart.co.uk/assets/unsuppor ... kmixin.zip
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VK3BJM
Re: My Little Problem.
Thanks for all the responses so far.
Peter VK5PJ: I've looked at the CMD prompt box for both the desktop and the laptop. I can't see anything in the desktop prompt box to suggest anything is wrong, when compared to the laptop (which works). When setting up the laptop, I needed to change the PTT Port number, but never touched the Audio In or Audio Out numbers. So I did likewise when setting up the options in the desktop.
My desktop CMD box looks like this:
The only difference with the laptop is that the Microsoft Sound Mapper Output is 3, instead of 4. Otherwise, the assignments are identical.
But if you can stick a screen shot of your CMD prompt box here, that would reassure me.
Leigh VK2KRR: re the mic input: as mentioned in my original post, already tried that, with the same nonworking result.
Geoff VK2MIA: I have Audacity, and will have a play with that to see how it goes. I don't believe I have a grounding issue, based on everything working OK when using the laptop with the same interface, radio, connecting cables. The only reason I mentioned the motherboard is because the "sound card" is integrated into it, and I wanted to be specific about the components in use. I don't believe that the motherboard is the issue. I haven't heard of ALC in these things before, either, but it was the closest analogy I could come up with to describe the behavior.
Alan VK3DXE: No, have been caught out by that one years ago, but not this time; have definitely clicked "Monitor" before doing the tests. I have rear and "top" audio ports, but I'm only using the rear ports (so the cables are out of the way). The "GUI" has identified them correctly when I've plugged them in, and the relevant "sliders" are enabled/unmuted on the Master Volume mixing panel. I'll persist a bit longer before trying the re-install of WSJT.
Andrew VK1DA: No - not sorted yet..! (I had to go back to the salt-mine...) Yes, I worked out the old "make changes then restart the programme" business - I must be spending too much time fighting with software at work these days, as that bit came intuitively!
As noted previously, all the relevant sliders are enabled in the mixer panel. But I'll try feeding some good old 820 Hz tone* in the inputs and see what comes out at the speakers for starters.
VK6ADF: I guess that is more for Leigh - I'll wait a bit before introducing more software into the "Potage de la Socks" that I have boiling away here...
Note to self: Well, it's cheaper than visiting the hairdresser...
73,
Barry
VK3BJM
* For all you Telecom Transmission techs out there from the good old analogue days...
Peter VK5PJ: I've looked at the CMD prompt box for both the desktop and the laptop. I can't see anything in the desktop prompt box to suggest anything is wrong, when compared to the laptop (which works). When setting up the laptop, I needed to change the PTT Port number, but never touched the Audio In or Audio Out numbers. So I did likewise when setting up the options in the desktop.
My desktop CMD box looks like this:
But if you can stick a screen shot of your CMD prompt box here, that would reassure me.
Leigh VK2KRR: re the mic input: as mentioned in my original post, already tried that, with the same nonworking result.
Geoff VK2MIA: I have Audacity, and will have a play with that to see how it goes. I don't believe I have a grounding issue, based on everything working OK when using the laptop with the same interface, radio, connecting cables. The only reason I mentioned the motherboard is because the "sound card" is integrated into it, and I wanted to be specific about the components in use. I don't believe that the motherboard is the issue. I haven't heard of ALC in these things before, either, but it was the closest analogy I could come up with to describe the behavior.
Alan VK3DXE: No, have been caught out by that one years ago, but not this time; have definitely clicked "Monitor" before doing the tests. I have rear and "top" audio ports, but I'm only using the rear ports (so the cables are out of the way). The "GUI" has identified them correctly when I've plugged them in, and the relevant "sliders" are enabled/unmuted on the Master Volume mixing panel. I'll persist a bit longer before trying the re-install of WSJT.
Andrew VK1DA: No - not sorted yet..! (I had to go back to the salt-mine...) Yes, I worked out the old "make changes then restart the programme" business - I must be spending too much time fighting with software at work these days, as that bit came intuitively!
As noted previously, all the relevant sliders are enabled in the mixer panel. But I'll try feeding some good old 820 Hz tone* in the inputs and see what comes out at the speakers for starters.VK6ADF: I guess that is more for Leigh - I'll wait a bit before introducing more software into the "Potage de la Socks" that I have boiling away here...
Note to self: Well, it's cheaper than visiting the hairdresser...
73,
Barry
VK3BJM
* For all you Telecom Transmission techs out there from the good old analogue days...
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VK5PJ
- Forum Diehard
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Re: My Little Problem.
Barry..
in the screen shot you uploaded, it shows a HD WebCam as an input device, you need to check the numbers in WSJT setup to ensure you have not mistakenly selected the microphone in the HD WEBcamera as your input... when you next run WSJT YELL at the camera (ensure monitor is on) and see if the waterfall display shows a response to sound coming in from the inbuilt camera microphone
In your case the setup should be set to be number 3 for input and the number 5 for output as far as I can tell.
I have two sound cards on my PC. the internal RealTek and a USB beast (Soundblaster) I use for the second rig, so my CMD box is a little different. For me my input is set to 1 and output to 4 (my RealteK) or if I want to use the USB sound card I alter the WSJT /WSPR setup to use 2 and 5.
Hope this might be a simple answer,
PS why was 820Hz used for line test? its not twice 440Hz
awaiting flames from ex PMG Tech's
Regards,
Peter vk5pj
in the screen shot you uploaded, it shows a HD WebCam as an input device, you need to check the numbers in WSJT setup to ensure you have not mistakenly selected the microphone in the HD WEBcamera as your input... when you next run WSJT YELL at the camera (ensure monitor is on) and see if the waterfall display shows a response to sound coming in from the inbuilt camera microphone
- WSJT setup - vk5pj
I have two sound cards on my PC. the internal RealTek and a USB beast (Soundblaster) I use for the second rig, so my CMD box is a little different. For me my input is set to 1 and output to 4 (my RealteK) or if I want to use the USB sound card I alter the WSJT /WSPR setup to use 2 and 5.
Hope this might be a simple answer,
PS why was 820Hz used for line test? its not twice 440Hz
awaiting flames from ex PMG Tech'sRegards,
Peter vk5pj
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VK3BJM
Re: My Little Problem.
G'day Peter.
Thanks for that.
I can confirm that no audio from the webcam is getting through to WSJT - no amount of yelling or whistling into the webcam causes any response on the waterfall, or on the level display.
I certainly have audio from the radio through the PC and out to the PC speakers. Can vary volume from the radio, or leave it fixed and the speakers match this. Can mute/unmute or vary the level slider on the relevant input on the Master Volume - all good. And I've amended the input and output numbers to the 3 and 5 you've suggested.
But WSJT continues to wind the level back when I try to increase the level from the radio to "get into the grey area"!
Additionally, I have both WSJT9 and WSJT7 installed on these PCs. (No, I'm only running one at a time...) I closed v9 and ran v7, and I have the same problem with it.
Spent afternoon removing carpet underlay and other fun things (even funnerer than wrestling with this, in fact ), so I'm going to let it go for the evening. Maybe the weekend will give me time, and an answer...
73,
Barry
VK3BJM
Thanks for that.
I can confirm that no audio from the webcam is getting through to WSJT - no amount of yelling or whistling into the webcam causes any response on the waterfall, or on the level display.
I certainly have audio from the radio through the PC and out to the PC speakers. Can vary volume from the radio, or leave it fixed and the speakers match this. Can mute/unmute or vary the level slider on the relevant input on the Master Volume - all good. And I've amended the input and output numbers to the 3 and 5 you've suggested.
But WSJT continues to wind the level back when I try to increase the level from the radio to "get into the grey area"!
Additionally, I have both WSJT9 and WSJT7 installed on these PCs. (No, I'm only running one at a time...) I closed v9 and ran v7, and I have the same problem with it.
Spent afternoon removing carpet underlay and other fun things (even funnerer than wrestling with this, in fact
), so I'm going to let it go for the evening. Maybe the weekend will give me time, and an answer...73,
Barry
VK3BJM
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VK3BJM
Re: My Little Problem.
Minor update: I've now tried using Audacity (and NCH Wave Pad) and I see the same thing with these programs as with WSJT9 and WSJT7.
That is, audio is fed into Line or Mic In and level from source is increased until signal starts to register with the program. Once increasing the level stops, a few seconds elapse before something internal to the PC winds the level shown in the program back down to unreadable/flatlining/-39.
This "internal attenuation" is not happening to the audio that is routed back out to the PC speakers. This stays constant.
Incidentally, the USB Webcam microphone level can be viewed on Audacity (definitely not in WSJT, though) and it remains constant.
More Googling has failed to uncover anything already documented elsewhere - but it's a big Interweb out there...
Where's my axe???
Barry
VK3BJM
That is, audio is fed into Line or Mic In and level from source is increased until signal starts to register with the program. Once increasing the level stops, a few seconds elapse before something internal to the PC winds the level shown in the program back down to unreadable/flatlining/-39.
This "internal attenuation" is not happening to the audio that is routed back out to the PC speakers. This stays constant.
Incidentally, the USB Webcam microphone level can be viewed on Audacity (definitely not in WSJT, though) and it remains constant.
More Googling has failed to uncover anything already documented elsewhere - but it's a big Interweb out there...
Where's my axe???
Barry
VK3BJM
Re: My Little Problem.
Hi Barry,
Maybe have a look in your Task Manager and see what processes are running. You could also run "HiJackThis" and see if there are any audio-related things running that you're not aware of.
I'd tend to disable the soundcard in BIOS and remove it completely from from your device manager, then download a new copy of the driver before doing a complete new install of it. It could be a resource conflict, although unlikely, but worth a try anyway.
Maybe have a look in your Task Manager and see what processes are running. You could also run "HiJackThis" and see if there are any audio-related things running that you're not aware of.
I'd tend to disable the soundcard in BIOS and remove it completely from from your device manager, then download a new copy of the driver before doing a complete new install of it. It could be a resource conflict, although unlikely, but worth a try anyway.
Alan VK3DXE
QF21nv
QF21nv
Re: My Little Problem.
Hi Barry,
- Try getting the output of wsjt to come thru your PC snd card as a first step.
Unplug rig from the laptop spkr jack & you should hear the wsjt prog tones on tx and can vary the levels with the vol & wave sliders.
If that half works ok, rx is most likely only a setup selection prob. if hardware/jacks/cables have been proved ok to pass audio into the pc. I found out a mono patch cord didn't work into the stereo jacks for example.
A lot of us have also gone around this loop your experiencing many times at first, to get the wsjt etc. talking both ways.
The Signalinks are prob the best solution, but also tricky to setup if you don't carefully follow the instructions .
Now, the best bit is when you finally get everything setup and talking on 3 or 4 comms progs. You plug in a usb headset or webcam etc. and it moves all your audio selections. Back to square 1, set em up agn.
The audio/ wsjt display response you describe is typical of what I have seen when the selections go wrong and I try to find the 0db level.
Anyway, keep at it.
73 Darrell
- Try getting the output of wsjt to come thru your PC snd card as a first step.
Unplug rig from the laptop spkr jack & you should hear the wsjt prog tones on tx and can vary the levels with the vol & wave sliders.
If that half works ok, rx is most likely only a setup selection prob. if hardware/jacks/cables have been proved ok to pass audio into the pc. I found out a mono patch cord didn't work into the stereo jacks for example.
A lot of us have also gone around this loop your experiencing many times at first, to get the wsjt etc. talking both ways.
The Signalinks are prob the best solution, but also tricky to setup if you don't carefully follow the instructions .
Now, the best bit is when you finally get everything setup and talking on 3 or 4 comms progs. You plug in a usb headset or webcam etc. and it moves all your audio selections. Back to square 1, set em up agn.
The audio/ wsjt display response you describe is typical of what I have seen when the selections go wrong and I try to find the 0db level.
Anyway, keep at it.
73 Darrell
My Little Problem.
Sounds like windows is throttling all audio entering the sound card or all coming out of it to the a:d converter. If windows sounds are set to Off perhaps that is stopping you from using the sound card for other purposes.
Is there a mute setting you need to turn off?
Can you select the sound card used by windows sounds and choose none?
This is something dealt with in wsjt setup doco from memory.
One of my laptops was happy to let me use its sound chip for wspr monitoring but another refused to play at all and I got the symptoms you have seen.
This is where an external sound system such as the one in the signalink makes it so much simpler. For what it contains it isn't worth the money. A sound chip, some transformers, vox type ptt control and a few connectors. But it saves you a lot of anguish and gets you on the air. That has to be worth something.
Andrew Davis VK1DA & VK2UH
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Vk1da.info vkfaq.ampr.org vk9na.com
Is there a mute setting you need to turn off?
Can you select the sound card used by windows sounds and choose none?
This is something dealt with in wsjt setup doco from memory.
One of my laptops was happy to let me use its sound chip for wspr monitoring but another refused to play at all and I got the symptoms you have seen.
This is where an external sound system such as the one in the signalink makes it so much simpler. For what it contains it isn't worth the money. A sound chip, some transformers, vox type ptt control and a few connectors. But it saves you a lot of anguish and gets you on the air. That has to be worth something.
Andrew Davis VK1DA & VK2UH
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Vk1da.info vkfaq.ampr.org vk9na.com