WIA RD Contest - How would you improve it ??

[VK5TX]

What's the point of going multi op then?

[VK4TI]

What's the point of going multi op then?

None what so ever it would appear

[VK4NM]

Commonly known as multi single - it's common in most contests - some allow a second tx/rx for mults only other contests don't. Great if you want to operate multi op and don't have 6 mono band antennas, networked computers and sufficent filtering.

[VK3PF]

What's the point of going multi op then?

I agree - there appears to be little point in multi-op, apart from camaraderie. And it is now real complex, needing some form of locking out to prevent more than 1 Tx being on air at any time. If the new manager wishes to promote the "Team" category (which is NOT listed in the "Category" section of the Rules!) and eventually do away with multi-op, why not just delete multi-op??

I note the comment about Multi-single, but that is something very different from the original multi-op station with which I am familiar, such as in the John Moyle Field Day Contest, which I guess are classed as multi-multi.

I have sent a number of comments to the new Manager, ranging from simple typographical errors to more complex questions...

Regards,

Peter

[VK5ZD]

And it is now real complex, needing some form of locking out to prevent more than 1 Tx being on air at any time.

Perhaps one of the digital mode gurus could invent some software that sends RTTY in short bursts (e.g. 500mS) and synchronise the transmitters so only one actually transmits at a time

Iain

[VK3ALB]

I think if a group or club goes to all the effort of putting up an aerials for each band, it makes no sense to limit them to one transmitter on air at any one time.

[VK3YE]

The activity on VHF in VK6 during the RD has to be heard to be believed and good on 'em I say. Some other states eg VK3 used to be like that as well but it's dropped off greatly judging from logs.

As for rule chanes, clubs should be allowed and encouraged to operate multiple stations from seperate sites.

One callsign per site - OK to use a member's call (if present) for second, third, fourth sites - if the club has one callsign only.

Clubs contribute more to overall activity and participation if they can manage 4 or 6 people at 2 or 3 sites instead of 12 operators at a single site. Especially on VHF, but HF as well. That's what this rule would encourage.

Logs could go in the multi-operator section as normal, but there would be a special certificate for the club with the highest added score of all its stations. Stations from the same club can work each other for points, provided that there are at least two outside club contacts for every within-club contact claimed (to limit collusion and spread activity around).

[VK5ZD]

Hi

clubs should be allowed and encouraged to operate multiple stations from separate sites

I have to disagree with this one. Surely the point of having a club is to get people to work together, not separately.

Clubs contribute more to overall activity and participation if they can manage 4 or 6 people at 2 or 3 sites instead of 12 operators at a single site.

This one I agree with, BUT, if you have, say, six people at two sites (three at each site) the proposed rules say that only one person at each site (the operator) can actually use the radio. The other two can't do anything to assist. i.e. All they can do is take turns at being the operator. [12 (1) All operators of single or multi-op stations must perform all operating and logging without assistance.]

Final though (for now ), why limit the club teams to three stations? What happens if the number of members wanting to support the club isn't a multiple of three. Maybe club teams should be allowed to consist of, say, two to four stations. Why not allow a single operator to allocate their points to a club?

Posted in the interest of encouraging debate.

73
Iain

PS: A bit more than 5 days to discuss the proposed changes would have been nice. The WIA web site says that the new rules must be finalised by 26th February - why?

[VK4SN]

Re non multiple of 3 operators & more

If the club has 5 operators for example, 3 of them can form a team as 3 individual operators/callsigns,
and the remaining 2 can form the clubs multi-op team. the club now has 4 callsigns on air.

However, a club would need four positions to cater for this. Four bands wouldn't be open together so
would need to use the same band as another, and unless the club has a super-station where they have no interference, they cannot participate and have what is supposed to be a fun day - Together!

The changes re clubs is NOT yet set in stone, and it's great to have the feedback. As someone commented
on before, a fresh face and a fresh set of rules makes for a good change, and I'm aiming to keep it simple and
fun for EVERYONE.

Re the 26th for rule finalisation.. If we need more time so be it. At least everyone is on the ball with
their 5c (inflation) worth now, instead of leaving it till last minute.

Great forum BTW- 1st time on it.

Cheers
Alan
VK4SN
www.vk4sn.com

Hi

clubs should be allowed and encouraged to operate multiple stations from separate sites

I have to disagree with this one. Surely the point of having a club is to get people to work together, not separately.

Clubs contribute more to overall activity and participation if they can manage 4 or 6 people at 2 or 3 sites instead of 12 operators at a single site.

This one I agree with, BUT, if you have, say, six people at two sites (three at each site) the proposed rules say that only one person at each site (the operator) can actually use the radio. The other two can't do anything to assist. i.e. All they can do is take turns at being the operator. [12 (1) All operators of single or multi-op stations must perform all operating and logging without assistance.]

Final though (for now ), why limit the club teams to three stations? What happens if the number of members wanting to support the club isn't a multiple of three. Maybe club teams should be allowed to consist of, say, two to four stations. Why not allow a single operator to allocate their points to a club?

Posted in the interest of encouraging debate.

73
Iain

PS: A bit more than 5 days to discuss the proposed changes would have been nice. The WIA web site says that the new rules must be finalised by 26th February - why?

[VK5ZD]

Four bands wouldn't be open together

There is life above 30MHz

Iain

[VK2CSW]

RD Contest - How would you improve it ??

Run it on Remembrance Day rather than VP Day (VJ Day)?

[VK4SN]

I have put a FINAL draft copy of the suggested rules on the WIA website today at 2:20pm local.

Implementing most of the suggestions and comments we are confident the contest rules will benefit and enhance
operation and encourage the 'friendly contest' attitude it has had in the past, including multi-multi club participation.

Thank you all for your input and concern to keep it the Premier Contest in VK.

Best 73's
Alan
VK4SN

[VK4SN]

Hi Everyone,

RD rules have been approved by the WIA Contest Committee and are now available from the WIA website.
I'm sure it will meet with almost everyones approval as it has been your input that has governed the rule process.

As I receive enquires for RD rule clarification, I will post them here so everyone becomes familair with the new rules and how to apply them.

I have been asked for an example on how a big multi multi station could operate using multiple bands and modes. This will clarify the use
of rules 5 and 7.2 (if you dont have a copy of the rules, download them from the WIA website.)
-------
Rule 7.2a allows you to run two transmitters on a single band, one either on SSB, AM or FM, and another transmitter on CW or RTTY,
but you CANNOT have two transmitters running on a single band, with both transmitters using SSM, AM, FM or CW and RTTY.

EG . BAND XMTR1 MODE XMTR2 MODE ALLOWED
1. 10M SSB,AM or FM CW or RTTY YES
2. 10M CW RTTY NO Because both transmitters are using the same mode on a single band as per Rule 5.2 (CW mode = CW & RTTY)
3. 10M SSB, AM or FM SSB, AM, or FM NO Because both transmitters are using the same mode on a single band as per Rule 5.1 (Phone mode = AM,FM & SSB)

Rule 7.2b allows you to have multiple bands operating at once as long as you comply with the above rule 7.2a

In this example of a Multi-multi station using 8 transmitters, you can run number 1 thru nr 3 example at the same time.

EG BAND XMTR1 MODE XMTR2 MODE ALLOWED
1 15M CW or RTTY SSB or AM YES
2 20M SSB RTTY YES
3 70CM SSB CW YES
4 2M SSB FM NO Because both transmitters are using the Phone mode on a single band as per rule 5.1


Best 73's
Alan
VK4SN
RD Contest Manager
www.vk4sn.com

[vk1da]

I operated in the rd contest first under my own call in 1965 on hf using AM and CW. To me it was the best radio event of the year. I operated in the event every year I could.

Much later I looked at the rules changes made in the 70s and 80s. Some changes like removing the variable points per contact table were quite sensible. But I found some problems in the assumptions underlying the state score formulas.
The winning state formula still includes a factor for the participation rate, in addition to being based on submitted points which already reflect the participation rate. For this reason a state with half the participation rate (log submission rate) of another with similar points earned per licencee will be given half the state score of the other state [actually after analysis this is not quite correct - they only get a quarter of the score - see my later posting and link to my blog where the problem is analysed]. This penalizes the larger states greatly.

As a general principle the efforts of unequal teams can only be compared if their efforts are reduced to a figure of merit based on average effort per team member.

In the rd this would be points earned per licencee.

In my view details like club and team operations are cosmetic changes that do not compensate for the underlying error in the state formula.



Andrew Davis VK1DA & VK2UH
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Vk1da.info vkfaq.ampr.org vk9na.com

[vk1da]

I have written up my analysis of the state scoring formula and published the analysis on my blog, at http://vk1da.net/blog/?p=282.

The analysis examines the state scores for equal performance by all states, on the basis that the rules should produce a tie if every state performed equally well. eg. a state that has half the population of another state should not have to make twice as many contacts in their logs.

It then performs some sensitivity analysis to examine the outcomes of specific changes to the logs from states of various sizes. It then shows the anomaly in the formula and how it has occurred.

I have then discussed the process of normalising to adjust scores of unequal states so a common measure.

Finally I propose a change to the formula that would provide equity across the states and remove the anomaly in the current formula.

The analysis only addresses the state scoring formula and does not comment on bonus points for using certain bands or modes. That kind of minor change is merely tinkering with the number of points given to contacts and has only a small impact on the overall state performance.

[VK3ALB]

Hi Andrew,

A logical solution indeed but I find it strange that a "state" can win a section of a contest. Who gets the certificate? I guess it's a hold over from the days when the WIA existed at a state level.

[vk1da]

Lou

In fact the original definition and purpose of the contest was to set up a competition between the states. The prize is the RD Contest trophy, a most impressive item with the winning states over the years inscribed on its plinth. Each state may also be awarded a certificate as a memento of their success. A photo of the trophy is on the WIA website http://www.wia.org.au/members/contests/ ... _hires.jpg

The original winning state formula in 1948 was the average of the top six logs from each state. This was unpopular, possibly because the efforts of other operators were not counted in the state score. It was changed many times more in the following decades as each successive contest manager tried valiantly to improve it.

[VK2ZIW]

Sleep, we ALL need sleep, so, how about 11pm to 5am curfew. I'm 60 and NOT getting any younger. (full stop)

FM activity is almost GONE. Reason, once a contact is made on SSB, no further points can be made by doing FM.
I suggest, if the transceiver at either end is ONLY FM or AM, then points, as for another band. 53.866 AM anybody?
This would encourage field stations to put up two sets of antenna, horizontal and vertical and take along
FM only radios, for the vertical antenna.
This would encourage mobiles to make a short trip to a hill and be 'in the game'.

Hand Helds, could make points from high buildings etc...

[VK5BC]

Hi All

I intend to spend a fair bit of time this weekend participating in this years RD contest, I hope others are planning to do likewise. I think the rule changes will improve the event and maybe some diehard HFers will look for some VHF contacts and vice versus. Only wish the rework rule had been eliminated completely and made operators look around the bands for contacts rather than sitting one band waiting for the 3 hours to come up.

Hope to hear you on Saturday & Sunday when we all can enjoy some contacts whilst remember VK hams lost in past wars.

73 Brian
VK5BC

[VK5IR]

This is not related directly to the RD contest so I'll apologise now for the off-topic question, but with regards to VKCL does anyone know what the check box with the "P/p" next to the Call Sign field mean?

I tried sending an email to the developer but on Tuesday but I have not received a response.