Standard Licencees - gateway for 52MHz

[VK5BC]

Many standard licencees are becoming frustrated, calling on 52.100 and nobody ever coming back to them. The other night I worked Karl VK7HDX on 52.100 and then heard him calling for an hour with no reply, even messages on the logger don't seem to help. As full licencees we forget to check 52 MHz for our standard licence mates and then we have the problem of getting the yagi to take some power 2MHz up.

I wonder whether we should establish 50.150MHz as a frequency we call on and listen 52.150 for any calls from standard licencees and vice verus.

I think we should try and encourage the standard licencees to maintain their interest in 6m and hopefully encourage them to obtain their full calls so that they can come down to 50MHz.

Any positive thoughts?

73 Brian
VK5BC

[VK4GHZ]

I think we should try and encourage the standard licencees to maintain their interest in 6m and hopefully encourage them to obtain their full calls so that they can come down to 50MHz.

Brian, absolutely.
On the other side of the coin, there must always be an incentive to upgrade.

I wonder whether we should establish 50.150MHz as a frequency we call on and listen 52.150 for any calls

This is BAD idea.
50.200 is already designated as the domestic VK calling frequency in the 50MHz sub-band, so it should be used for this purpose.
Why on earth would we want another domestic call frequency???

And, where does 52.150 come from?
52.100 is the domestic call frequency that should be used.

We already have designated call freqs on both the subband, and 52MHz.
Let's start using what we already have, without further complicating things.

[vk3six/a]

During the Spring contrest I called on 50.150, 52.050, 52.100, 52.150 & 52.525FM. I didn't make a single contact above 52 MHz. I also do some random CQs on 52.100 from time to time and am yet to get an answer.

take all the offence you like

[VK6HOG]

Well, being one of those standard licence holders I will put my 5cents worth into the debate on this matter.

Quite simply, it is extremely frustrating to call away on 52.100 - 52.110 with only the static coming back to you - and then to listen on 50.100 etc and hear some activity.. very frustrating.

I have (on advice from VK5BC - thanks Brian) started to work split - and use the logger to announce what I am doing. I guess the advice I am getting back is that most full calls have antennas prime tuned to 50Mhz and not 52 Mhz.. so - working split gives me the opportunity to tx legally - and most full calls the opportunity to work on a frequency that their system is happy with !

Anyway... I love the idea of the magic band, frustrating as it is. I don't go there to rag chew. I go there to make that odd contact, and feel the joy of achieving it.

All I ask is that if full calls watching the logger see us standard calls making the effort to work split - please make the effort to work split back

Kind regards from the other side of the swamp.

Geoff de vk6hog

[VK7HDX]

That's a bit odd It maybe where I'm calling from but I dont have any troubles getting an contact on 52.100Mhz from this location beaming West/North and East form VK7. And another thing I have noticed after a while a few stations come up and visit (and call) after they have worked stations on the lower end of 6m and they want to work some new stations.

Yes I know that many operators 6m antennas are tuned/peaked for 50MHz and TX on 52Mhz can cause some issues with the high SWR.

Here is a small tip even if you have a converted rig for example..AWA RT-85 you would be suprised who monitors 52.525 and 52.050MHz at times.

Catch you on (SSB) 52.100MHz & (FM) 52.525Mhz..

73...Karl
VK7HDX

[VK2MRP]

Well... I am another one of those standard licence holders that gets frustrated as well. I must admit I never thought of working split and it is a great idea, especially for those that do not have an antenna broadband enough to cover both segments of the band. I know I have put posts in VKlogger from time to time when the band has been right open and still nothing - no one even giving an explaination to why they won't go to 52mhz which is probably the most frustrating part of it. I have had some great DX in the last couple of weeks, but with people that have had their arms twisted by some of my local buddies here to try 52mhz just so I can get some more dx.
I am planning to upgrade my licence and have organised to sit the test early next year (hopefully nothing will interupt this plan), and it is this frustration that the majority of people do not seem to want to even try 52mhz that is pushing me along (I wanted to sit the advanced test when I sat standard but that is another story). VK2DAG, I much appreciate the effort people like yourself and a few others I know make to be accomodating to us standard calls, and really it does seem the rarest dx on 6m is the stuff in the 52mhz part of the band
Hopefully we will have a great dx season ahead of us, it has started quite nicely. I know I monitor both 50.110 and 52.100 for activity (as well as the beacons).
Have fun dx'ing

73
Bob
VK2MRP

[vk3six/a]

No serious dx working person will answer a VK2?
Are you serious.

Great Wall Great fence.

Your perception of 6M is just that a perception.Summer E's is not DX.

[VK1PWE]

Stop whinging and upgrade the licence.

Yeah, well that's incentive isn't it...

There is no doubt it can be frustrating with the lack of activity above 52. At least .525 for the moment offers reasonable numbers of FM contacts.

My take on it is that over time, and I was assuming this summer, there would be sufficient Standard calls operating on the 52Mhz section to make it worthwhile listening on 52.1. Going by the logger, this would seem to be the case from time to time. For those of us that can only operate on 52 and above, lets make use of the allocation - propagation willing, there will be plenty of activity.

And for those that wish to upgrage for the 'magic' of 50, go for it. Personally though, I haven't seen too much sense made by some to give incentive to upgrade purely to use 50Mhz.

[VK6HOG]

Sometimes it's the arrogance of some people that demonstrates to me (and others) why OUR hobby - is in danger of ... extinction.

The amatuer radio fraternity has spent a whole lot of time / energy / resources lately ensuring that the hobby itself allows itself to expand, make better use of the knowledge and resources available to it before someone else (i.e government, private enterprise) buys it, takes it, allocates it away, bans it.

5BC's point... as I took it - was to ENCOURAGE operators to do more - explore through use. Not all of use are rocket scientists, born and blessed with a mind that allows ready acceptance of the full call exam.

Silence is golden they say. Well silence is the death knell of amatuer radio.. If people are not using the frequency (and im talking about WHEN conditions permit lol) then it is almost like a self fulfulling prophecy... One day, there may be no one using it, because its... too hard... too expensive.. or simply ... not allowed to anymore...

So we can stand here and stay, stuff everyone, if they are good enough, then they can come play with us... or we can say - hey - this is how we do things digger. Nurture, encourage, foster - develop foundation licences, encourage standard calls to experiment - give them guidance and direction on how to work in an existing framework of regulations - to make OUR hobby stronger.

I speak with so many people who simply LAUGH about HAM RADIO. Dit dit dah dah they laugh.. I try and describe a fraternity.... they don't understand..

But when I read the arrogance... maybe I am wrong. Frac(tured)turnity is more the word perhaps... Them and US.

Hey, everyones entitled to their opinion - i'm all for that - and perhaps I should have taken a breath before reading and replying in this forum... but cheers again to you Brian... always giving good advice - encouraging, supporting - generating interest... I hope to talk to YOU on 6M again.. Im really looking forward to it... and hey, you wont even have to slow down

Geoff
...- -.- -.... .... --- --.

[VK7HDX]

Umm. I wasn't whinging about nothing.
But I could take offence to some peoples attudes.
So I will let it go for now.

Karl
VK7HDX

[vk3six/a]

HOG
This arrogant person took the time to work you on 52 last season and run a dedicated beacon beamed at Vk6 for about 7 years at my own cost ($42/Q $250 PA) from a "Serious DX site"
Not that it changed the sad lot of the VK6 6M op.
The beacon FYI is now terminated.
I neither have the inclination the time or the money to spend the $2000 to restore the beacon.
What are YOU going to do for the hobby?

Over to you!

[VK2MRP]

VK3SIX - Well, if I have read this correctly what you are saying is that the 50mhz segment of the band is there for INTERNATIONAL DX (and actually the band plan does say that 50.100 - 50.150 is for internal dx ONLY!!!), and the 52mhz segment of the band is more for local (VK/ZL - I have included ZL here as lot of them are restricted to this segment of the band too) communications.
If that is the case - what is the problem with chatting in the 52mhz segment of the band if it is only local e propagation??

Further

VK3SIX -
No serious dx working person will answer a VK2?
Are you serious.

ealise that the standard
Nope, perhaps not. But a nice person would probably answer a VK2 putting out a call. And there are those around that do not realise that the standard calls only get 52-54mhz, and when you mention it to them they do actually come up and say hello.

I really hate buying into these "arguments" as it was not meant to be an argument at all - just some have pointed it in that direction.

Thanks to all of those that do accomodate us standard calls - you are the ones that encourage us to upgrade.

[VK6HOG]

In the interests of preventing this becoming a personal slanging match, which I do not subscribe to... will be be not honouring a reply.

Forums are open to personal comment. Everyones got their own personal point of view - thats the great thing about forums but it shouldnt turn into a flame war.

Geoff
vk6hog

[VK7HDX]

Well done Geoff ...
I couldn't of put it better myself. It could of turned into one of those "Us Vs Them" flame wars for no reason.

We are all intitled to our own opinion which is fair enought.

73...Karl
VK7HDX

[VK5BC]

I very disappointed the direction that this subject took. It wasn't initiated to become a Standard licence bash, a history lesson on 50 Vs 52MHz allocation or what is or isn't DX etc. but the idea was to make more operators aware that our standard licence mates could only operate above 52MHz and that perhaps we advanced licencees could look for these operators in the hope of maintaining their interest in 6m and maybe encouraging them to work towards their advanced licence. I also thought that maybe we could come up with a way to simplify the process with 50 - 52MHz working.

This is BAD idea.
50.200 is already designated as the domestic VK calling frequency in the 50MHz sub-band, so it should be used for this purpose.
Why on earth would we want another domestic call frequency???

And, where does 52.150 come from?
52.100 is the domestic call frequency that should be used.

OK Adam, fair point, I don't care if it is 50.200 - 52.200, I was looking for simplicity (2MHz apart). As for calling frequencies they can always be changed and it seems to me there is total confusion over the 52MHz calling frequency and it could be a chance to clarify the position and we all know how often 50.200MHz is used.

Your perception of 6M is just that a perception.Summer E's is not DX.

Steve, I think you probably worked A35 the other day on summer E's and thats after placing several messages on the logger a couple of weeks earlier attempting to convince all & sundry that it was most unlikely. Many operators enjoy the summer E's and what it can bring. Certainly fills in the 10 year gap between What you consider to be "real" DX.

Fortunately not all Advanced licencees have Steve's attitude and only last Sunday I got a couple of VK4's to go to 52MHz to worked a VK5 standard licencee new to 6m and give him his 1st DX contact on 6m.

Lets either get back to a reasonable discussion or drop the topic.

73 Brian
VK5BC

PS- remember the old saying, if you haven't got something good to say about somebody, don't say it.

[VK4GHZ]

...and it seems to me there is total confusion over the 52MHz calling frequency and it could be a chance to clarify the position and we all know how often 50.200MHz is used.

That was my point Brian... (I'm not sure I conveyed it well, though).
Another set of calling freqs might introduce even more confusion and missed opportunities.

The situation on 2M is an absolute cot case, with some designated call freqs only used on weekends, etc.
How on earth can new ops, or ops new to 2M DXing, be aware of the complex procedures.
The simpler a band plan is, the more chance there is of it being adhered to.

Lets either get back to a reasonable discussion or drop the topic.

PS- remember the old saying, if you haven't got something good to say about somebody, don't say it.

Hear, hear.

No matter how passionate we are about this or that, let's leave the insults to the overseas discussion boards.
We are all friends here with a common interest, so from an administrative point of view, this is expected.

[vk3six/a]

Advanced Operator as in getting on in years.

Yeah well this old timer fought a hard fight against all odds to assist with the restoration of 50.050 to 50.2 back in 1989.
Risked licence and limb.
Then we resubmitted to VK1RX and got 50.00 to 50.3.
We got the Ross Hull contest booted out of the dx window and we will continue to safeguard the Dx window for what it was designed.

Its all in black and white including the bit where we assured the Broadcast Mob we would be unlikely to work E layer and "All beams" would be pointing off shore to the dx.

Nice spin hey?

[VK2JDS]

as you say vk3six, what are we doing for the hobby, good point, well i am encouraging new amateurs to upgrade, and also calling on 52 end of the band
but on a research note, i run a meteor counter 24/7 on 46.172 for years now, its solar powered and required unloading every 4 or 5 days from the ibm laptop in the hut. its logging at about 15 samples per second so you can construct a good graphical picture of the fresnel pattern waveform of the incoming meteor.
also it gives you a great picture of the duration and hit rate of some of the known showers and gives a great way of finding the not so known ones that arent visible.
i have sent numerous cdroms of data to astronomy people and some amateurs who want to wade through the enormous amount of data to get an insight into 6 metre meteor scatter work.
so far i have been through 3 laptops, 5 hard drives, 2 network cards, 1 solar panel,a few battery arrays and to keep it running in the hard times (no sun, rainy weeks) we have sacrificed a fridge for it and run generator at times.
we are all solar powered here and live in a forest.
everyone here does something in their own way for 6 metres, most say nothing much about their work until prompted.
73's

[VK4BKP]

Yesterday when the E's were in, went up to 52.100, called CQ and worked a full call. 52.525 FM called CQ and worked another full call. Accessed about 4 repeaters. No standard licenses to be found. Were all listening to the activity on 50 meg and not monitoring 52?