Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

630m (472 kHz) - 10 m (29 MHz) antennas, propagation, operating, etc
VK4WDM

Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK4WDM »

Can we get this straight please. 28.490 MHZ is not a recognized calling frequency anywhere in the world, absolutely not, full stop! So those who told the K6 (might have been a KH6) too much QRM to be certain, to "QSY off the calling frequency" yesterday are a showing complete ignorance about the operating conventions of amateur radio. He was just too polite to tell you where you should put your so-called calling frequency plus the rough end of the microphone. Keep doing that sort of thing and the word will get around the rest of the dx stations and CQ's from VK will be met by stony silence! :(

You are all cutting your own throats anyway when you are all calling on the same frequency. "Calling frequencies" official or not, are only useful when band activity is very low. Forget about them when the band is open - spread out and call CQ anywhere. While many of you were embroiled in the gargling mess on 490, others were having qrm-free contacts with plenty of stations, including some rare ones, up the band.

In case you think I am just being a grumpy old man, I am just trying to help you get as much pleasure out of AR as I have had in the last 45 years, and hope you can better my score of 208 countries worked!

Just repeating, forget about 28.490 MHZ - spread out and have fun! :D

73

Wayne VK4WDM
VK4GHZ
Forum Diehard
Posts: 1905
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:39 pm
Contact:

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK4GHZ »

This has been a heated topic over the years. :wink:

I think the "490 thing" was started by relative newcomers, ignorant to the fact that 28.495 +/- has always been the defacto spot frequency used by DXpeditions.
Local VK chit chat on 490 has not gone down well at all.
In fact, VKs just look foolish operating so close to a sacred international DXing frequency.

With the huge allocation on 10m, the rest of the world wonders "why there?"

To prove a point, perform a search on DX Summit; http://www.dxsummit.fi/Search.aspx
Search on ZL8X, 10M only, Phone, 100 spots
See what comes up.

:roll:
Adam, Brisbane
vk4ghz.com
VK4GHZ on Youtube
VK4GHZ on Odysee


10 things that happen when you stop checking Facebook constantly: http://tiny.cc/t5h7cz

How to quit Facebook: https://www.consumerreports.org/social- ... -facebook/
VK2KRR

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK2KRR »

I haven't monitored 28.490 due to the 'CB' nature/attitude of some operators on there which put me off. Quite disappointing.

Its a well known fact now that people are going to be monitoring that frequency, why not take the initiative if possible and QSY if a contact finds you there. I certainly would.

Alternatively there is also 28.390 allocated for VK calling. Put it to use people!
VK4WDM

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK4WDM »

There is a VK1 on the logger hoping that the HS0 currently using .490 will move so he can put out a call. I just made a post that the HS0 (a well known dxer) does not have to move anywhere. If he was on that frequency first he can stay there as long as he likes and the VK1 needs to call elsewhere - lots of room.

I really don't how we can get these very simple messages on long-standing conventions across! They are for the benefit of everyone.

73

Wayne VK4WDM
VK2AAH
Forum Diehard
Posts: 886
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:23 pm

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK2AAH »

Hi Wayne,

I'm someone just starting to get in to the 10m "bug" and I downloaded the WIA bandplan- it says .390 is the VK call freq so I started calling there. Nothing heard. I then heard a heap of people using .490 as the call freq. I scratched my head & thought the list was wrong! Thank you- I'll go back to using .390 or, as you suggest, anywhere in between as things hot up.

Cheers (and thanks),


Richard
VK2AAH
User avatar
VK4CZ
Forum Diehard
Posts: 680
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:14 am
Location: Clear Mountain - Brisbane (Nth West) - QG62lp
Contact:

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK4CZ »

Wayne

The issue is two fold - with a couple of sweeping generalisations to follow........

Firstly is that an amount of momentum towards creating 28.490 as a domestic calling freq was previously established without due regard for long established and recognised convention, and has [although the realisation of it's futility has been acknowledged] been maintained by a number of operators who are none the wiser (although I believe they may sprook their 'wise-ness' when challenged). :lol:

(see this thread viewtopic.php?f=41&t=70)

Secondly, as has been demonstrated in the current forum thread relating to the F call inspections by ACMA, that disregard for the privileges that come with an amateur radio license haven't transgressed with the migration of some op's from the 11m band. :oops:

As a previously dedicated 6m and 10m operator for 2 cycles, I have to admit that I haven't operated 10m for over 12 months as a result of the experiences of dealing with these op's an having taking down my 10m yagi and not replacing it I often lament the decision as it has seriously impacted my ability to mount serious contest operations from this QTH in the last year, but only to have the decision reinforced when seeing posts like yours!
Scott VK4CZ
Clear Mountain QG62lp
http://vk4cz.blogspot.com/
VK4WDM

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK4WDM »

Hi Richard

10m is a great band when conditions are good. You can work the world with modest antennas and low power. 28.390 MHZ is listed as a domestic CF so that most intra-VK contacts will stay on the low end of the SSB segment, it is not recognised outside VK, but very few international stations venture that far down the band.

I guess 490 had its place when activity was low and dx stns very rare but it not officially recognised either within or outside of VK and must not be used as a CF now that international stations have returned to the band in good numbers. Most of the internationals will be found between 28.450 and 28.500 with the top edge expanding as the activity increases. When the band is open a CQ anywhere in that segment should bring a response.

28.495 is the traditional centre frequency for dxpeditions who will then work "split" up or down. The convention is that these stations have "right of way" so that everyone has a chance of bagging a "rare one." There are several expeditions planned within the next year or so and it will reflect very badly on AR in VK if the use of .490 as a CF causes QRM to these stations. :(

It is worth learning these traditional conventions and "gentle-persons agreements." They have served AR very well for a long time and and respecting them means that we can all enjoy the various facets of our wonderful hobby. :D

73

Wayne VK4WDM
VK7HDX

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK7HDX »

Its really a simple solution.... "Call and QSY" off 28.490MHz easy as that if you feel to need to call there. Its become a "cultural thing" monitoring for domestic (ZL/VK) traffic.
Putting smart-ass comments on HF section @ Logger is a waste of time (I fixed that by using Logger's blocking feature)
Please remember not all ZL/VK operators are using VK-logger as well.

Be polite...and oh yeah don"t flame me for my views. its kind of pointless..

73..Karl
VK7HDX
VK8NSB

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK8NSB »

Its amazing to read all the comments about 28.490, some of you down south should come to Darwin and just listen to the Freq, some days when 10m opens its like the CB Ch 35 with stations calling over each other on 28.490.

Yesterday afternoon (20th Dec 10) I got on 28.490 and asked 3 times if the Freq was in use & after no one had replied I decided to CQ and worked a couple of VK's, then I had some idiot come up and ask if the Call Freq was in use , he was 59+ , I was in the middle of a QSO with a VK3 and told the station yes the Freq was in use , then the idiot asked what was my callsign , I again asked the station to standby , at this point the station then stated that I was to identify myself because I was on the call channel, asking for my callsign again , at this point I had missed most of the QSO that I was actually in & decided to tell the Idiot that I was actually in the middle of a conversation and he was rude and to standby (Again) , then all of a sudden I got hit with a 59 + 20 tune-up - at which point I decided not to bother to continue, saying 73,s to the VK3 and leaving 10m.

Its amazing but in the WIA Bandplan I see nothing about 28.490 as a Call Freq ? but constantly here people telling others (not just me) that they have to QSY off the Freq -- Well I won't be, I will continue to ask if the Freq is in use and if not I will CQ and remain on this Freq.


73,s Stuie

VK8NSB ---
DARWIN NORTHERN TERRITORY
ZONE 29
VK2KRR

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK2KRR »

I agree with Karl, if you call and find a contact, just QSY it would cause less drama. And yes posting stilly & insulting comments is typical of CB types & does nothing to help.
Perhaps people should call first on 28.390 MHz and see who you find there before calling elsewhere. (Make sure u QSY for the contact though also).
Could people please post the contacts they have found so far on 28.390?? I would be interested to know.
User avatar
VK2GJC
Forum Novice
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:50 am
Location: Ulladulla
Contact:

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK2GJC »

Ham radio can be heaps of fun and education and training should be ongoing for all of us.

The electromagnetic spectrum and in particular the frequencies of radio wave propagation continue to get us all hot and bothered. Just like other natural resources eg: land, water, minerals and our atmosphere we should try and share it around while we're here.

Spreading the word politely and educating new comers about operating procedures of using a calling channel, whether it be our WIA Recommended VK calling frequency of 28.390 or the newbies nominated Calling Frequency of 28.490, is all we can do.

Recommending that once a contact is established it is best to QSY and when doing this it is a good idea to not just jump into a QSO on a new frequency, and that standard procedure is to check if the frequency is in use. Propagation can vary and you could start a QSO right on top of another.

Too often people don't listen, check and follow procedures of our Ham Radio Hobby and cause minor problems that could be politely discussed, sharing and caring is the way to go. :D

VK2GJC - Greg
Ulladulla, NSW South Coast
Everything in this universe has a unique frequency, all you have to do is tune in . . .
DE VK2GJC, Greg Cogar - Ulladulla NSW South Coast - Grid: QF54fp
User avatar
VK6ADF
Forum Diehard
Posts: 412
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:35 pm

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK6ADF »

My thoughts are I can just imagine it will happen when an overseas station will be in QSO or calling and some VK will try to get them to QSY off a non existant calling channel that they have fixed in their mind it is but no-one else will. What should be done is to encourage them to twiddle the VFO knob, find a clear freq, listen and then enquire before calling CQ.

The only calling channels should be the long time internationally recognised one's like SSTV, 6m liason, 10-10 chapter nets. Yeah, you can have a frequency you monitor but don't get upset if someone has a QSO on a frequency, especially a non officially recognised one.

73 Phil...VK6ADF
VK4WDM

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK4WDM »

Hi Karl
You are entitled to your views, and I have no intention of “flaming” you for them, but there is a wider issue than just a “cultural thing” to consider.

It may be a “cultural thing” for VK’s to use 28.490 MHZ as a “calling frequency” (CF) but it is not a culture that will be respected by the majority of 10m operators, especially the stations outside VK. I was horrified to hear an American being told to “QSY off the CF” when he has every right (provided he was there first) to use it all day if he chooses. Word does get around and some stations may end up on a “no reply” blacklist. (Yes, it does happen).

10m is regarded as an “international band” and the conventions and “gentle-persons agreements” applying to international operations apply there. Some people may regard these as “old hat”, but they are what stops AR from degenerating into chaos and stopping all of us getting the best results and enjoyment out of our wonderful hobby. For example, there is nothing illegal about me plonking a 100w SSB signal on 28.120MHZ, or holding a SSB QSO on 28.030 MHZ, but I would not do that. Why? Because by international convention, those frequencies are used for PSK and CW respectively, and I, as a member of the international ham community, have an obligation to honor and respect those conventions. If there is a need for change then it can be done through the various international societies.

In other words, Australia, or individual operators therein, cannot unilaterally declare a “CF” in any international band, or internationally-accepted segment of a band. 28.390 MHZ is ok because international SSB operations do not usually occur that far down on the band. The same goes for the FM CF on the high end. You may ask about the WICEN frequencies. It is generally accepted that each country needs an “emergency coordination frequency” (they are not CF) on each band and in some cases these frequencies are common across countries (although more needs to be done in that respect).

My major worry is the potential impact that the continuing use of .490 as a CF will have on “dxpeditions” that use 28.495 MHZ as a centre frequency (a long held convention) and often work “split down.” The reputation of VK AR would sink right down into the brown stuff and may never recover if a bunch of VK ops using an internationally-unrecognized CF interfere with the chance of others bagging a “rare one” that might only be activated every 30 years or so, and at a cost, in some cases, of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Dxpeditions can, and do, “black list” stations, and even all stations from particular countries for failing to adhere to recognized conventions, or to instructions about where and when to call.

As I have said previously, .390 is a very good idea to coordinate VK contacts, and I have no problem with the use of .490 being used as an informal CF when band conditions are down and international stations are rarely heard (I have even used it myself). Thankfully, that is no longer the case for this sun spot cycle and the use of .490 as a CF should cease.

Spread out, have fun – old Sol is starting to do its thing! 10m (the other “magic band”) will soon be full of signals. Even the “F calls” will be working the world on 10 watts and a vertical or dipole! :D :D

73
Wayne VK4WDM
VK2KRR

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK2KRR »

Could people please post the contacts they have found so far on 28.390?? I would be interested to know.
As I suspected no contacts found at all on 28.390.

People concerned with International DX if you call on 28.490 do not answer domestic stations who return to your calls! Then maybe they will look for domestic stations on 28.390 ?
VK4WDM

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK4WDM »

Hi Leigh

I hope I did not give the impression that I want to see chunks of 10 reserved for dx operation only - not so! One of the joys of the band is that you can be working a VK one minute and a G the next. Activity begets activity and the more stations on the band from VK, or anywhere else the better! If somebody calls me from VK or anywhere I will answer them, and I will always give precedence to "F calls." :D

The worry with .490 is three fold:

1. The problem comes when you try to enforce, especially to internationals, that .490 is for "calling only" and we have the right to MAKE stations QSY. We don't, and that applies to both Vk's and non-VK's.

2. By using "call channels" on 10m we are promoting very poor operating practice. The standard and well-proven technique on all HF bands is to tune the band and listen for any stations calling CQ and answer them, or find a clear space, inquire is the frequency in use a couple of times, and if it is not in use, put out a CQ call. A few days ago there was a melee of VK's on .490 all interfering with each other and not being able to hear the other station well enough to copy the frequency they were being asked to QSY to. Whilst this was going on other VK stations were working VK and dx stations by using the above technique.

3. There is the big risk of compromising dxepedition operations as I said in my previous post, and the other side of that coin is that .490 won't be much use as a CF if the band really opens up and there are JA or EU pileups trying to to work Sable Island in March. I bet there will be plenty of VK's on .390 then. :wink:

73

Wayne VK4WDM
VK2KRR

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK2KRR »

Hi Wayne

All fair enough comments.

And for instance the VK mobile stations? much easier and safer to be listening on one freq while driving, and a little dangerous to be tuning around. Here again would be a good situation for 28.390 to be put to use if your a mobile station. Just need others to be listening there too. If people find no one on 28.390 but responses on .490 then there going to inhabit .490 I would think.

Perhaps if .490 is busy. People can move to .390 and call.
VK7HDX

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK7HDX »

As you know I'm a huge 10m mobile enthusiast. And I have my radio pre-programmed with a few frequencies .390 .410 .440 .470 .475 .490 .495 and its easy to control the radio from the microphone and much safer than straying eyes off the road..

73...Karl
VK7HDX
VK3BJM

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK3BJM »

Karl's got the right idea - if you're going to operate mobile it's up to you to set it up to make it as safe as possible. That means preprogramming VFOs and memories as much as possible, to avoid messing around with the big knob on the radio - your hands are supposed to be messing around with the big knob controlling the car. The alternative is to end up looking like a big knob :oops: , or becoming a big dead knob... :cry:

Having operated mobile a bit in the past (and it doesn't matter that most of it was on 144 MHz - I've dabbled with HF, too!) I can't see any problem with QSYing from a "calling frequency", if that's where you initiated the contact; as the mobile operator I've always tried to determine what frequency we shift to - ideally one that I've set up earlier in the other VFO or a memory. The mobile operator should be allowed to "drive" this choice (pun intended) - the operator lounging in the comfort of their shack can more safely "follow the leader".

Anyhoo - tangent ends.

73,
Barry
VK3BJM
VK2KRR

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK2KRR »

OK THanks Barry/Karl
VK4WDM

Re: Please stop this nonsense on 28.490!

Post by VK4WDM »

I don't operate mobile, but I have pre-set frequencies programmed in on almost all bands on the shack radios. Usually I call CQ in what is usually the busiest part of a band (.480 - .520 on 10m) to maximize the chance of a reply. If the QRM is bad I will suggest QSYing to a higher frequency. Or I might announce on .390 or .490 "VK4WDM listening on 28.510." Having presets available makes that very easy. :D

73
Wayne VK4WDM
Post Reply